Essential Fellini

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
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Re: Essential Fellini

#151 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:04 pm

Beaver
A few sections affected by severe decay were replaced with interpositive materials conserved by Cineteca Nazionale.
separate
strangely all 4 digital editions in this comparison seem to have different color schemes
Fixed
Last edited by FrauBlucher on Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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brundlefly
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Re: Essential Fellini

#152 Post by brundlefly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:07 pm

Adapting the ol' "if you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes" to the color scheme could be one way to mitigate objection.

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Drucker
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Re: Essential Fellini

#153 Post by Drucker » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:41 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:04 pm
Beaver
A few sections affected by severe decay were replaced with interpositive materials conserved by Cineteca Nazionale.
strangely all 4 digital editions in this comparison seem to have different color schemes
I misread this as thinking Juliet was taking from 4 different sources and all of those within the new restoration have different color schemes. #-o

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brundlefly
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Essential Fellini

#154 Post by brundlefly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:43 pm

Drucker wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:41 pm

I misread this as thinking Juliet was taking from 4 different sources and all of those within the new restoration have different color schemes. #-o
Same here. I guess instead you can choose what color you'd prefer Masina's bonnet to be and order accordingly.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Essential Fellini

#155 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:49 pm

Drucker wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:41 pm
FrauBlucher wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:04 pm
Beaver
A few sections affected by severe decay were replaced with interpositive materials conserved by Cineteca Nazionale.
sorry, separate quotes
strangely all 4 digital editions in this comparison seem to have different color schemes
I misread this as thinking Juliet was taking from 4 different sources and all of those within the new restoration have different color schemes. #-o

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Essential Fellini

#156 Post by dwk » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:46 am

Blutarsky wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:03 pm
The new Juliet of the Spirits transfer looks noticeably lighter and has hints of teal/yellow per DVDBeaver
Looking at Beav's caps (insert usual caveat about their reliability), the criterion disc looks much more pink than teal or yellow to me. (I imagine if this was yellow or teal leaning, the title card would appear more green and the not purple it appears to be.)

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Essential Fellini

#157 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:50 pm

Not an answer of much value, but this is Mulvaney's response to my question about possible individual releases (a la the Bergman set) coming forth from this box:
The 14 Fellini films that are on the upcoming ESSENTIAL FELLINI box set could possibly be individually released or re-released in the future on Blu-ray. This is not a guarantee, but it's possible, and if it did happen, it likely would be some time after the box set is released.

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: Essential Fellini

#158 Post by yoloswegmaster » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:53 pm

Also, important to note is that Criterion will be releasing the original 145 minute version of 'Juliet of the Spirits'. I believe that this is the first time that this version has been released on blu.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Essential Fellini

#159 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:33 pm

yoloswegmaster wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:53 pm
Also, important to note is that Criterion will be releasing the original 145 minute version of 'Juliet of the Spirits'. I believe that this is the first time that this version has been released on blu.
Goddamn it, I don't want to get this whole set for that one film, but my arm's getting twisted by the day

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Big Ben
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Re: Essential Fellini

#160 Post by Big Ben » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:17 pm

What is the difference between the versions?

mteller
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm

Re: Essential Fellini

#161 Post by mteller » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:39 pm

Boy that's making it tempting for me too. Especially since I imagine Juliet would be low-priority for a separate release.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Essential Fellini

#162 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:08 am

I wouldn't think so. Sure, it makes sense for Nights of Cabiria, and maybe La Strada or I Vitelloni, to be prioritized- but if they're releasing the original version, I have to imagine that'd bump it. Someone at Criterion clearly likes the self-indulgent backhalf of his oeuvre, so why not pick the best of the lot?

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otis
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Re: Essential Fellini

#163 Post by otis » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:22 pm


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TheKieslowskiHaze
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Re: Essential Fellini

#164 Post by TheKieslowskiHaze » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:39 pm

otis wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:22 pm
Amarcord Beaver
More vibrant colors than Criterion's 2011 release, but looks kinda blown out.
Last edited by TheKieslowskiHaze on Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Essential Fellini

#165 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:45 pm

Call the teal police

J M Powell
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:20 am
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Re: Essential Fellini

#166 Post by J M Powell » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 pm

That Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.

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tenia
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Re: Essential Fellini

#167 Post by tenia » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:43 am

J M Powell wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 pm
That Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Actually, only in the color scheme, but outside of this, the older disc really looks dated in comparison. Just look at the captures 5 and 6 for instance.

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Randall Maysin
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Re: Essential Fellini

#168 Post by Randall Maysin » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:24 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:45 pm
Call the teal police
If only there were such a thing....!

black&huge
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:35 am

Re: Essential Fellini

#169 Post by black&huge » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:03 pm

tenia wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:43 am
J M Powell wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 pm
That Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Actually, only in the color scheme, but outside of this, the older disc really looks dated in comparison. Just look at the captures 5 and 6 for instance.
Why do the dark areas look saturated or oddly black in the new resto? I was actually thinking of picking up the older disc while the B&N sale is going for the colors even though I got this set preordered.

Specifically speaking of the third pic/set of comparisons with the old man (I think it's the Grandpa or the father in the film?) the darkness of his suit jacket looks very odd to me.

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tenia
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Re: Essential Fellini

#170 Post by tenia » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:09 pm

black&huge wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:03 pm
Why do the dark areas look saturated or oddly black in the new resto? I was actually thinking of picking up the older disc while the B&N sale is going for the colors even though I got this set preordered. Specifically speaking of the third pic/set of comparisons with the old man (I think it's the Grandpa or the father in the film?) the darkness of his suit jacket looks very odd to me.
Because it's both crushed AND slightly colored, giving it a weird colored hue, would be my guess (because that's the issue I usually have with those).

black&huge
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Re: Essential Fellini

#171 Post by black&huge » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:15 pm

Ah! crushing. perhaps that was the word I was looking for. Thanks Tenia yeah I think it looks good overall just the dark areas it looks like someone spilled black coffee on the print. Well seeing it in motion hopefully might ease some of the oddness otherwise the older disc is still in the cards.

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tenia
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Re: Essential Fellini

#172 Post by tenia » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:32 am

I can't say if it's bothering in motion though I'm usually more bothered by the elevated black levels in quite dark scenes, because the whole picture then usually looks like it has a veil on it. It's dull, lacks depth, and since the dark-greys (rathen than blacks) are flat and actually don't have any shadow details, that's really where it makes the matter worst. However, when only a part of the screen is concerned (like here on this Amarcord cap), I'm less bothered, it doesn't look as weird as when it's, say, a night shot.

Here however, unlike B&W movies, these areas are also slightly colored (it's usually yellow/green for Ritrovata, like on some gialli released by Arrow - see for instance The Bloodstained Butterfly), so it adds another weird effect to the darker areas.

This being written and taking into account Beaver's approximation when it comes to screencapturing, some of those caps look very bad but on the other hand, the older disc looks very dated both in texture and grading. If only the grading of the new restoration hadn't been handled this way, it would be an undeniable upgrade.

Side note : I saw last Fall a 35mm archive copy of La classe operaia va in paradiso and while it was indeed quite yellow, whites were white and blacks were black, unlike what Ritrovata (or Eclair and sometimes Digimages-Hiventy) is doing. I also saw a 35mm copy of Mimic and the BDs also don't have the nuanced grading the copy had, but rather some kind of more blanket-y tint. I think both sum up quite well the issue I have with how those labs are grading their restorations nowadays (on top of how they're harmonising color gradings of hundreds of movies).

J M Powell
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Re: Essential Fellini

#173 Post by J M Powell » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:31 am

tenia wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:43 am
J M Powell wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 pm
That Amarcord transfer is a definite downgrade from the previous Criterion blu.
Actually, only in the color scheme, but outside of this, the older disc really looks dated in comparison. Just look at the captures 5 and 6 for instance.
I'm looking, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. To me the crushed blacks look very bad on the new transfer, and that has a much more pronounced negative effect than the relatively minor gain in detail from sharpness.

For example, there's a tad more detail in the brickwork of capture #6 in the new transfer, but in capture #5 the furs are a blob and the red dress blends right into the black fur in the new transfer; there's a lot more detail in the old transfer. (The new transfer is mislabeled "2012" on capture #6 but I'm certain that's a typo.)

Factor in the lousy color scheme, and to me the new one looks very bad in comparison to the old.

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dwk
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Re: Essential Fellini

#174 Post by dwk » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:30 am


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tenia
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Re: Essential Fellini

#175 Post by tenia » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:57 pm

J M Powell wrote:I'm looking, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. To me the crushed blacks look very bad on the new transfer, and that has a much more pronounced negative effect than the relatively minor gain in detail from sharpness.

For example, there's a tad more detail in the brickwork of capture #6 in the new transfer, but in capture #5 the furs are a blob and the red dress blends right into the black fur in the new transfer; there's a lot more detail in the old transfer.
It's not a minor gain in sharpness, it's a quite typical gap between some work performed more than a decade ago on a less efficient film scanner (Spirit Datacine) and an intermediate source (35mm IP) vs a much more efficient scan (4K Arriscan) of the OCN. The older disc has the typical aspect of an older HD master, with thick grain and a lack of very fine texturing of the picture (and probably some sharpening). The new restoration doesn't have this issue and instead has the usual texture and high frequencies of a brand new 4k restoration of the OCN made on an Arriscan. I mean : there is the quality coming from the scan and the restoration work, but there is what is coming from the grading itself, and these are different things with different impacts and different picture "markers".

I'd have to check in motion but it's also fairly likely the older disc has recurring wobble of the frame while the newer restoration is extremely likely to be perfectly stable because of the pin-registered scan vs edge-guided Telecine.

Also, while the newer color grading introduces the issues you're mentioning (which don't have to do with the overall definition of the picture now but with crushing details), the older disc certainly has a grading of its era, especially how it's handling contrast overall. If Lee Kline was to grade the new scan, it certainly wouldn't handle highlights and darker areas the same way at all.


So all in all, I insist : the new disc definitely looks like a brand new 4k restoration from the OCN that sadly is dumbed down by its grading but the older disc certainly looks dated nowadays. Again, you can spot this most esaily in the 5th set of caps, precisely because that's where the color grading doesn't impact too much.

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