Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 20
Watching this again recently, I found myself far more compelled with the subplot literally no one ever talks about between Kirsten Dunst and Tom Wilkinson, which serves as a clever metaphor for how we always seem to repeat our past mistakes and find ourselves attracted to the same qualities in each new mate, who is always so different and special, even though on reflection afterwards we always manage to see patterns unnoticed by us during the relationship (here literally erased but undone by our internal makeup regardless)
- Trees
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 20
Am I the only person who felt like Tom Wilkinson was miscast? He doesn't really seem like the kind of person this attractive young woman would have fallen head over heels for, twice.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 20
No, mostly because it is clear that looks is not the reason for the attraction. That's even where the title is factored in.
- StevenJ0001
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 20
That subplot is great, and another thing that doesn't get mentioned much is the interplay between Dunst, Wood and Ruffalo, which is hilarious.domino harvey wrote:Watching this again recently, I found myself far more compelled with the subplot literally no one ever talks about between Kirsten Dunst and Tom Wilkinson, which serves as a clever metaphor for how we always seem to repeat our past mistakes and find ourselves attracted to the same qualities in each new mate, who is always so different and special, even though on reflection afterwards we always manage to see patterns unnoticed by us during the relationship (here literally erased but undone by our internal makeup regardless)
- mfunk9786
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Re: Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 20
Sounds familiarTrees wrote:Oh, I have. Maybe that's why I didn't care for Clementine's "impulsive" action. She is brushing off her own pain and dumping it squarely on Joel, with no warning.swo17 wrote: Have you never really had a broken heart, one that leaves you in constant agony with seemingly no respite in sight? I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to be free of that pain.
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 20
Recently re-watched Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - for the first time since seeing it in the theater way back in early 2004. Great drama, with an interesting sci-fi twist. I find it very relatable, even more so after seeing it this second time - I think many people can relate to sometimes wanting to forget bad relationships/experiences they've had.
Excellent acting. Kate Winslet was especially amazing in this; I felt her various hair color(s) were almost metaphors for what she was feeling at various time(s). Well done.
Excellent acting. Kate Winslet was especially amazing in this; I felt her various hair color(s) were almost metaphors for what she was feeling at various time(s). Well done.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
So in a little digging through digital copies of films that are on sale, which is a sort of pathetic thing I do each week in order to cultivate a low-cost streaming library of films (most older films go on sale for $4.99 here and there, so I just gobble them up on sale), I stumbled upon the fact that this film is in UHD on FandangoNOW, but not on any other services.
It's $7.99 and compatible with Movies Anywhere (again, it tops out at 1080p on all other services though, including Apple, so you'd have to buy it at FandangoNOW in order to take advantage of this), so I bit and bought it - I'll give it a little test run tonight to make sure it streams in that resolution and report back on how it's looking/whether it's a new transfer a la The Big Lebowski, which no one expected to be totally redone by Universal but came out looking fantastic in the format.
Will be interesting to see, because there is no UHD disc announced yet, and the poor soul who asked if one is on the horizon on the Blu-ray.com forum got a response that went:
"No.
What a ridiculous post."
Tell us again how we're the mean, elitist forum.
It's $7.99 and compatible with Movies Anywhere (again, it tops out at 1080p on all other services though, including Apple, so you'd have to buy it at FandangoNOW in order to take advantage of this), so I bit and bought it - I'll give it a little test run tonight to make sure it streams in that resolution and report back on how it's looking/whether it's a new transfer a la The Big Lebowski, which no one expected to be totally redone by Universal but came out looking fantastic in the format.
Will be interesting to see, because there is no UHD disc announced yet, and the poor soul who asked if one is on the horizon on the Blu-ray.com forum got a response that went:
"No.
What a ridiculous post."
Tell us again how we're the mean, elitist forum.
- bottled spider
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am
Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Brilliant. I remember not entirely liking it the first time I saw it, probably only because I was in the wrong mood at the time for such a melancholy film. This time I was thrilled by the cleverness of it. There's the core idea of reviewing a failed relationship via the process of its erasure -- the viewer becoming more and more invested in the relationship the more it disappears -- and then you have the subplots of the Mary and Patrick characters, which turn out to be more than incidental to the primary plot. When the "virtual reality" stuff going on in Joel's head threatens to become wearisome, there's the counter balance of the real world shenanigans to refresh the viewer.
One aspect of the plot I wasn't clear on:
One aspect of the plot I wasn't clear on:
SpoilerShow
When Joel desperately attempts to shield some memory of Clementine from erasure, this is happening strictly in his own head, with no psychic collusion with the real Clementine or her subconscious, right? Ultimately, not a single memory is protected, but "Clementine" manages to implant a suggestion to go to Montauk, that they might meet again. But this is just the Clementine in his head that makes the suggestion, not the actual Clementine -- nothing psychic? It's really a self implanted suggestion, and it's only a gamble that it will work?
As for Clementine in real life, is her presence in Montauk specifically caused by Patrick courting her using the material he stole from Joel? Joel knows what Patrick is up to because he overhears Patrick and Stan
during his procedure, so does that mean he could predict Clementine would probably go there, in spite of her own memory being equally wiped clean? Again, nothing psychic, and not coincidence?
As for Clementine in real life, is her presence in Montauk specifically caused by Patrick courting her using the material he stole from Joel? Joel knows what Patrick is up to because he overhears Patrick and Stan
during his procedure, so does that mean he could predict Clementine would probably go there, in spite of her own memory being equally wiped clean? Again, nothing psychic, and not coincidence?
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
I think your explanation is as good as any. I would only add that there is an element of predetermination in the film with the final shots...bottled spider wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:36 pm...One aspect of the plot I wasn't clear on:SpoilerShowWhen Joel desperately attempts to shield some memory of Clementine from erasure, this is happening strictly in his own head, with no psychic collusion with the real Clementine or her subconscious, right? Ultimately, not a single memory is protected, but "Clementine" manages to implant a suggestion to go to Montauk, that they might meet again. But this is just the Clementine in his head that makes the suggestion, not the actual Clementine -- nothing psychic? It's really a self implanted suggestion, and it's only a gamble that it will work?
As for Clementine in real life, is her presence in Montauk specifically caused by Patrick courting her using the material he stole from Joel? Joel knows what Patrick is up to because he overhears Patrick and Stan
during his procedure, so does that mean he could predict Clementine would probably go there, in spite of her own memory being equally wiped clean? Again, nothing psychic, and not coincidence?
SpoilerShow
... implying that the courtship has already been repeated numerous times or has the potential to repeat. The medical procedure is not perfect, so the "Montauk" suggestion could be that one piece of memory that is always hidden from the technicians. If any aspect of the relationship holds appeal it's going to be the moment Joel and Clementine meet, so "Montauk" could be a shared moment that both parties may be unwilling to let go of and deliberately hide, ensuring that they will continue to find each other and repeat the affair.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
SpoilerShow
I took it also as a possibility for multiple repeats of the same thing, but I think it rather is some kind of idea of fate : no matter what they do, even erasing themselves from each other's memories, they'll find each other somehow.
- knives
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
SpoilerShow
The script's original ending had the credits running over a montage of them repeating the movie several times over the years.
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
SpoilerShow
I always took the ending much more broadly, in that all relationships have ups and down and their meshes of characteristics will make for a painful journey, but it’s “worth it” so to speak, in a yin yang world. It seems to me to be a statement on the nature of relationships in general being insane by design, yet living through avoidance and fear is no way to live. So we’re doomed to feel hurt by participating, but we’re doomed to miss out on living at all otherwise, so choosing the option with experiences of love is the better choice. It’s a twisted kind of optimism, but speaks volumes to those who have had a series of ‘failed’ relationships in allowing a compassionate reframe to reinforce the decision to risk going through it again.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
I imagine that's Gondry's contribution shining through.
- bottled spider
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am
Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Wow, thanks guys, the idea that
What I liked about the ending, twbb, was that (to my mind) it was utterly ambiguous how optimistic or pessimistic it was.
SpoilerShow
the relationship may have occurred, or will recur, multiple times was not something I picked up on at all (even though I wondered after the movie was over if Kaufman/Gondry had Buddhist concepts of rebirth, karma, and the bardo at the back of their mind when they wrote the script).
Nor had I considered fate (as opposed to mere coincidence), but that's a fitting and satisfactory enough explanation in the context of a romance.
Nor had I considered fate (as opposed to mere coincidence), but that's a fitting and satisfactory enough explanation in the context of a romance.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Isn’t that idea already literalized in the film with the Dunst/Wilkinson subplot? I don’t think it needed another iteration
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Yeah definitely, I mean it can’t possibly be wholly optimistic, but if looking at life as a series of these kids of natural tragedies that include pain and happiness, it bears its own kind of catharsis for that worldview. Also knives, that feels so much like Kaufman’s vision of relationships too that I wouldn’t say it’s Gondry’s contribution. He further dissected this idea of the inability to escape our character defects, default behaviors, and uncontrollable investment in a relationship in his latest helm, using very similar philosophical approaches to the theme.bottled spider wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:51 amWhat I liked about the ending, twbb, was that (to my mind) it was utterly ambiguous how optimistic or pessimistic it was.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Aaaaaaand... Brand new restoration coming from Kino Lorber on UHD Blu-raymfunk9786 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:24 pmSo in a little digging through digital copies of films that are on sale, which is a sort of pathetic thing I do each week in order to cultivate a low-cost streaming library of films (most older films go on sale for $4.99 here and there, so I just gobble them up on sale), I stumbled upon the fact that this film is in UHD on FandangoNOW, but not on any other services.
It's $7.99 and compatible with Movies Anywhere (again, it tops out at 1080p on all other services though, including Apple, so you'd have to buy it at FandangoNOW in order to take advantage of this), so I bit and bought it - I'll give it a little test run tonight to make sure it streams in that resolution and report back on how it's looking/whether it's a new transfer a la The Big Lebowski, which no one expected to be totally redone by Universal but came out looking fantastic in the format.
Will be interesting to see, because there is no UHD disc announced yet, and the poor soul who asked if one is on the horizon on the Blu-ray.com forum got a response that went:
"No.
What a ridiculous post."
Tell us again how we're the mean, elitist forum.
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Watched this the other night. Last time I saw it was from a neighbors borrowed DVD when I was briefly living in student housing. Looks good in 4K, nothing really to write home about much beyond that. For all but the last shot I came away a bit underwhelmed by the ending. Joel and Clementine listening to each other’s tapes is kind of spoiled for me by how effective it is when Dunst’s character barnstorms the office and finds her files. Up to this point the redundancy in the plot of moments being revisited is charming if not entirely innovative (and incredibly funny in spots too), but after that it is somehow less charming and reaching without achieving the same thing her powerful performance does in this.
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
I watched it again recently too and really focused on the detail that, even when erasing someone from our memory, we cannot undo the growth we did and the person we've become as a result of moving through that relationship. Small differences like the way each character responds just slightly less erratically to triggers or provocations from the other in their 'first meeting' on the train vs the actual first meeting on the beach, or Winslet's disturbance when Wood reenacts the ice scene, speak volumes and document the respective characters' evolutions and sobriety to tics and behavioral changes of maturity they cannot evade. I know so many people who rigidly segregate themselves from past relationships. We all do to some degree, but there are people who bury any memories and value from them to more comfortably compartmentalize their energy and 'move on', and yet they've all accumulated new skills at managing sensitivities fundamentally outside of the more conscious 'lessons learned'. It's an interesting movie for its loud high concept, but the older I get, this subtler residual effect within that concept feels like the film's most significant accomplishment in translating. Yes, we cannot truly forget our greatest traumas in painful relationships ending, but even when we try and half-succeed, we cannot escape the influence they've had on us - and there's always a reframe of resilience to be found there.
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Maybe someone else can connect the dots better on this but I could have sworn
SpoilerShow
the primary motivation for Mary’s erasure is that she had gotten pregnant and the abortion was the catalyst for her procedure
- ianthemovie
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
I believe this was part of an earlier draft of the screenplay or maybe is even addressed in one of the deleted scenes, can't remember where.flyonthewall2983 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:21 pmMaybe someone else can connect the dots better on this but I could have sworn
SpoilerShowthe primary motivation for Mary’s erasure is that she had gotten pregnant and the abortion was the catalyst for her procedure
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
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I think it's kept deliberately broad, as in - feelings developed more strongly for her vs him, it seemed to be becoming more than an 'affair', he convinced her to get the procedure (the only one mentioned - not an abortion, but the memory fix). However, that's a really interesting note, as I never really considered that it could serve as an ambiguous metaphor for that kind of bodily trauma that can sever a relationship. The way Howard says, "You wanted to get [the procedure]" (he may even use those exact words) can read like that and the emotional effect is similar.
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
There's definitely a deleted scene that makes that explicit.ianthemovie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:34 pmI believe this was part of an earlier draft of the screenplay or maybe is even addressed in one of the deleted scenes, can't remember where.
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Clears that up for me thanks guys. It was kind of strange not being as moved as I was the first time I saw it all those years ago. Of a similar vintage Magnolia held up entirely for me watching it three years ago just as the lockdown began. Perhaps lacking the urgency and confusion about everything else I was perhaps letting it trick me or just lead me out, throw on something shorter or not at all.
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Re: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Michel Gondry, 2004)
Or "better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:15 amSpoilerShowI always took the ending much more broadly, in that all relationships have ups and down and their meshes of characteristics will make for a painful journey, but it’s “worth it” so to speak, in a yin yang world. It seems to me to be a statement on the nature of relationships in general being insane by design, yet living through avoidance and fear is no way to live. So we’re doomed to feel hurt by participating, but we’re doomed to miss out on living at all otherwise, so choosing the option with experiences of love is the better choice. It’s a twisted kind of optimism, but speaks volumes to those who have had a series of ‘failed’ relationships in allowing a compassionate reframe to reinforce the decision to risk going through it again.