The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#201 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:51 am

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:46 am
Anyone know who the final credited editors are for the film? I think Welles winning a posthumous Best Director Oscar is a stretch, but Editing may well be in reach
Bob Murawski (The Hurt Locker) is responsible for most of the editing. Welles edited approximately 40 minutes of segments spread throughout the film (mostly the "film-within-the-film" footage); my understanding is that Murawski kept most of the Welles-edited material intact with, perhaps, some modifications (Welles didn't have access to all of the original camera negative - Murawski did). The credits read "Edited by Bob Murawski & Orson Welles".

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FrauBlucher
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#202 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:54 am

domino harvey wrote:I think Welles winning a posthumous Best Director Oscar is a stretch
But a nomination wouldn’t be, especially if he gets a finalist slot for the DGA.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#203 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:56 am

I agree. I think the unprecedented nature of it will be encouraged by the Academy as free press for next year's ceremony, and I can see the Old Guard rallying to make it happen

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domino harvey
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#204 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:58 am

Roger Ryan wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:51 am
The credits read "Edited by Bob Murawski & Orson Welles".
Thanks, I'm now certain it will win: the Academy can honor Welles and the lengthy post-production process without anyone complaining about the bigger category going to a dead man

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Persona
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#205 Post by Persona » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm

Murawski oversaw this cut based on Welles' notes and the work-print blueprints, if you will, but the editorial department on this one is MASSIVE. In addition to all the standard crew and film restoration artists and digital intermediate techs and assistant editors and whatnot, you also have about half a dozen very established editors credited as additional editors: Jonathon Braun, Arnaud Petit, Yves Deschamps (The Life of Jesus, Paris 36), Paul Hart, and Marie-Sophie Dubus (Cemetery Without Crosses, Le Cercle Rouge, Possession -- I'm assuming her work was on the original print since she worked with Welles on F for Fake but maybe she was brought in to help and consult)...

You can see why. What a monumental undertaking.

I find it really interesting that Welles' final film was shot by Gary Graver--basically, a porn director. And yet this finished version is scored by da musical god Michael Legrand.

Think this is going to be a fascinating mix of "high" and "low" art and I only hope its editing aesthetic doesn't give me a headache (anything in the Tony Scott ballpark of shot/cut frequency usually starts to grind on me).

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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#206 Post by bearcuborg » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:08 pm

I have to say, the modern look is a bit stunning to me. I’m also not used to such color in a Welles film, since I’m so used to grain in his work. However, I’m fascinated and filled with anticipation.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#207 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:49 pm

Persona wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm
...I find it really interesting that Welles' final film was shot by Gary Graver--basically, a porn director. And yet this finished version is scored by da musical god Michael Legrand.
Same situation with Welles' F For Fake (1975) - the new footage (roughly 50%) was shot by Graver and Legrand did the score. Graver could get equipment and worked for free, the perfect accomplice for Welles' shooting methods. The tragic element is that Graver had counted on Wind giving him a higher profile (and the ability to leave the exploitation stuff behind), only for the film not to be finished in his lifetime.

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Persona
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#208 Post by Persona » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:59 pm

Thanks for that insight, Roger. Really fascinating. And speaking of fascinating:

https://deadline.com/2018/08/orson-well ... 202453685/

I can't wait for the documentary about the making of this thing.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#209 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:17 pm

https://deadline.com/2018/08/orson-well ... 202453685/
"...It will finally unveil at the Venice Film Festival following a meticulous and painstaking process of re-editing and re-writing funded by Netflix."
I have no idea what Bart is saying about the film being "re-written". It wasn't really "re-edited" either since it was never fully edited to begin with. And how, exactly, was Frank Marshall involved for 25 years of a 48-year project when he was there at the beginning and now the end? Searching the globe for footage? It's been well-known for decades that the camera negative was being stored at a Paris lab. A very carelessly-written piece which seems determined to undermine Welles yet again and discredit those who like his films despite the lack of narrative coherence. ](*,)

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Big Ben
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#210 Post by Big Ben » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:22 pm

What was this shot on? I'm guessing whatever Welles could get his hands on? The trailer is hypnotic.

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Persona
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#211 Post by Persona » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:38 pm

IMDB says 8mm, 16mm, and 35 mm. 4K Digital Intermediate.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#212 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:58 pm

Big Ben wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:22 pm
What was this shot on? I'm guessing whatever Welles could get his hands on? The trailer is hypnotic.
There was a very deliberate use of varying film stocks. The footage of Hannaford's film was shot on 35mm whereas the rest was shot on 16mm and 8mm (and, possibly, even videotape) meant to represent the formats used by the documentary and news crews, as well as various hangers-on, who have gathered to follow Hannaford on his 70th birthday. Note that the aspect ratio changes as well: 1.85:1 for Hannaford's film; 1.37:1 for everything else.

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Persona
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#213 Post by Persona » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:54 pm

Early reactions starting to surface:

http://www.wellesnet.com/other-side-win ... re-review/

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domino harvey
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#214 Post by domino harvey » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:37 am

Well... it was fun to believe this was getting a Best Director nomination. Lots of polite positive reviews, but nothing to indicate this has a chance like Netflix hoped

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Altair
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#215 Post by Altair » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:51 am

I'm not sure anyone really thought it would - maybe Legrand's score, which is getting plenty of praise, will be nominated. From Netfleix's point of view, they can say they helped rescue a pivotal part of film history, while Roma competes more seriously for awards. At any rate, having seen the trailer and read the first wave of reviews, I'm incredibly excited to see it - it sounds incredibly rich in the true Wellesian fashion.

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hearthesilence
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#216 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:13 am

I never thought an Oscar nomination for best director was realistic - the age alone would probably keep a lot of voters from going for it, but besides that it never struck me as being the least bit commercial. The few filmmakers who've been able to pull a nomination off with that kind of work were pretty popular with Hollywood. (see Terrence Malick and the parade of stars who audition for his films) Welles was admired in his old age but the fact that virtually no one would give him money says a lot, even when he was doing something as great as F for Fake.

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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#217 Post by Calvin » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:50 am

It hasn't been awarded with any regularity recently, but I wouldn't think a Special Achievement Oscar would be beyond the realms of possibility? Either in producing or editing - or both.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#218 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:52 am

Seriously, The Other Side of the Wind is competing with The Last Movie, We Can't Go Home Again, and Welles' own F for Fake - it was made in that era with that mindset. I don't know what Netflix was thinking, but I'm pretty sure everyone else who worked on this film knew they were completing a joyously indulgent gonzo experiment from the fringes, not an Oscar-winning hopeful.

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Persona
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#219 Post by Persona » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:47 pm

Robert Abele's take is probably my favorite so far:

https://www.thewrap.com/the-other-side-o...s-netflix/

This is gonna be such a fun and fascinating film to dissect, especially for hardcore Welles fans.

I think there might be some awards consideration for Legrand's score and maybe the editing, from what I've heard. But more than likely it will be Roma that is Netflix's heavy awards player this year.

edit: just saw Altair's post, which mine is a bit redundant to. I agree, Altair!

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FrauBlucher
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#220 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:25 am


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J Wilson
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#221 Post by J Wilson » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:18 am

I can see some kind of special recognition or editing award for this; otherwise, it's still too out there for modern audiences to care about, and the misogyny and other politically incorrect material will alienate plenty of people these days. Plus, the film-within-a-film sequences will bore the shit out of a lot of people.


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Persona
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#223 Post by Persona » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:43 pm

It's funny because all through his analysis he does a good job of making the film sound immensely interesting and engaging, but then at the very end there he's just kind of like, "But I'm disappointed." He did give some reasoning, of course, but it feels squashed under all the commentary before that only makes me want to see the movie.

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#224 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:54 pm

I love Bordwell so much and he's one of the few people who's opinion is worth a damn. I'm curious to see how it grows (or doesn't) on him over time.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Other Side of the Wind (Orson Welles, 2018)

#225 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:16 am

Bordwell's is an excellent analysis, but if he really spent his first viewing counting individual shots (over 2,300, apparently), that might have impinged on his enjoyment!

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