Madeline's Madeline (Josephine Decker, 2018)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Message
Author
User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Madeline's Madeline (Josephine Decker, 2018)

#26 Post by knives » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:49 pm

I doubt she has a severe mental illness either as I said in my first post, but being a poor and young person who is eager to please receiving such attention as being the star does lends itself easily to the director or other authority figure to push them or use them in improper ways. It sounds like Howard was not pushed, but the use of documentary moments does sound like it could have reached improper use. I am being very careful because to be honest I have no facts. It just seems strange for a film to be about a critism against itself and Howard's performance reflects that criticism.

User avatar
HinkyDinkyTruesmith
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:21 pm

Re: Madeline's Madeline (Josephine Decker, 2018)

#27 Post by HinkyDinkyTruesmith » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:57 pm

I didn't mean to point to any single person suggesting that she did, only that the cumulative effect of everyone's discomfort at what the film eventually became (along with the suggested parallels between reality and the film, invoked not only by the film, the posters here, but also the cast and crew), makes the question of whether Howard is like Madeline a genuine concern.

My experience in theatre, especially with devised theatre, makes me think the film is less about Decker's desire to tell (and defense of telling) a young black girl's story than this thread currently holds it to be. Not that that isn't a component, of course, but the film (in my memory, compounded with interviews) seems to be trying to restructure how we perceive film from being a director oriented medium, to a communal one. Now, this ties into the question of Decker's role and debated exploitation, and add to this the film's intersectional issues and visual style, and, well---I need to rewatch it before I say anything concrete!

User avatar
soundchaser
Leave Her to Beaver
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Madeline's Madeline (Josephine Decker, 2018)

#28 Post by soundchaser » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:04 pm

HinkyDinkyTruesmith wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:57 pm
Not that that isn't a component, of course, but the film (in my memory, compounded with interviews) seems to be trying to restructure how we perceive film from being a director oriented medium, to a communal one.
Which only makes me dislike the
SpoilerShow
deliberate undercutting of the communal ending
even more.

User avatar
dda1996a
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am

Re: Madeline's Madeline (Josephine Decker, 2018)

#29 Post by dda1996a » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:07 pm

Hated it almost from the second scene, and only Howard's performance made me care if at all. Lynn Shelton's debut We Go Way Back does so much better in it's brilliant first half what this film doesn't manage in it's entirety 90 minutes

User avatar
brundlefly
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Madeline's Madeline (Josephine Decker, 2018)

#30 Post by brundlefly » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:39 pm

soundchaser wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:04 pm
HinkyDinkyTruesmith wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:57 pm
Not that that isn't a component, of course, but the film (in my memory, compounded with interviews) seems to be trying to restructure how we perceive film from being a director oriented medium, to a communal one.
Which only makes me dislike the
SpoilerShow
deliberate undercutting of the communal ending
even more.
SpoilerShow
But the focus doesn't go back to the director. It goes from the communal performance back to Madeline, and we're left behind as she walks away from us to find her own way. Her identity doesn’t belong to the troupe any more than her mother or Evangeline; she becomes (sigh) Madeline’s Madeline. Of possible endings, this is at least a little healthier to me; it avoids a pat "theater can solve mental illness!" conclusion.

Were I more cynical about the project, I'd say that given Becker's pervasive ambivalence -- maybe the shallow depth of field is meant to be less an expression of the character's mental state than the director's ability to focus! -- we should be glad she found an ending at all. A more legitimate relinquishing of control would have had the character grab the camera and run off with it or somesuch, and as exhilarating as that may have been, it still would have been a choice to include it.
Whenever the film turned towards questions of authorship I groaned inside, not necessarily because it wasn’t a valid question, and not because self-doubt is the worst kind of indulgence, but because those questions made the film about Decker and her Parker avatar when the strength of the movie is obviously Howard. That Decker doesn’t know enough to sit back and allow Madeline to hold center is the real betrayal here. (Her character’s name is in the title! Twice!) Parker’s best when her character is cluelessly manipulative, and after she forces Madeline into that improvised therapeutic breakthrough, the troupe is less concerned about safety and mental health issues than... who has a right to tell this story? Movie, your priorities suck.
It’s frustrating because I still like a lot of the movie. Sure, its very first scene is nearly fatal (“What you are experiencing... is a metaphor?”), and every time it has to make a choice it bolts toward the most pretentious one. But there is an inquisitive freedom. Though the backstory seems underdeveloped, the July-Parker twin-pillar structure is refreshingly non-polar. And Howard is captivating. I hope her imdb page fills up right-quick. I’m down to see anything she’s ever in, ever.

I can’t say the same for Decker, but I am at least curious. The Oscilloscope DVD has a 25-minute interview with her that – and this may simply be the result of how the interview is intercut with the film footage – makes it seem like the film’s strongest scenes were all pick-ups suggested by a producer. That doesn’t help, nor does Decker saying, “If I want somebody to take away something from [the film], it’s literally whatever they experienced.” She comes off as (self-consciously) easily distracted by process and drawn toward abstraction. But her self-doubt isn’t self-satisfaction, it’s active and serious and searching for something.

To provide contrast or complement, Oscilloscope also has a trailer for The Fits on the disc. And that film was so good, so good for how decisive and sure-footed it was while juggling ambiguity and many of the same elements here.

(Also on the disc: A very short behind-the-scenes for Madeline’s great trailer. Practical effects! The text was puppeteered! Kudos for including that.)

Post Reply