The Indiana Jones Franchise (Steven Spielberg/James Mangold, 1981-2023)

[feihong]

Watching the original trilogy in 4k made me realize just how much the cinematography by Douglas Slocombe created a really vibrant link in common between the first three films. I think the substitution of Kaminsky in the fourth movie (Slocombe, who it seems was the house cinematographer for Ealing and for Basil Dearden––and who shot a huge range of other famous movies, from The Servant to The Italian Job, from Rollerball to The Great Gatsby––had retired with Last Crusade) changes the flavor of that film perhaps more than anything else. The new picture changes the flavor considerably more, but the sunlight-bathed photography of Mangold's dp (who seems to shoot mostly commercials) really makes the picture seem different. Slocombe had a pleasingly noir-ish way of shooting in slightly saturated color, and his lighting effects really helped sell the quasi-religious experiences that capped off each of the first three movies––as well as the burnished period look of the films. You could look into the image and see interesting value groupings, with sections of light and sections of shadow which were interesting to parse out. Kaminsky's weird soft-focus, maximum-light-source photography, and Mangold's dp's very conventional approach light the pictures too evenly, making for dull, unsophisticated images, and a lack of the really pleasing, shadow-heavy period feeling of Slocombe's Indy films. It says something that, next to the other cinematographers, Slocombe's really very stylized lighting and color looks far more naturalistic. And I imagine the needs of the cinematography on the first three movies led somewhat to the expanded feeling of awe in the discoveries of the various artifacts in those films. That sense of awe is substantially missing in both Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny, and I think it's to both films' detriment that we just seem to paw all over the artifacts in these movies, and treat them like functionary objects. The skull in Crystal Skull is a terrible conception from the start, but when it gets tossed around like a basketball all movie it loses any mystery or glamour––the dial of Dial of Destiny feels more like a macguffin than any of the objects in the previous films. I think that misses something crucial. These objects aren't macguffins used just to get the plot rolling; they are objects of significance and meaning in the stories. The dial gets really, really short shrift before the last 30 minutes of the new movie. Regardless, It's been a treat to revisit the Slocombe films again, and to discover how beautiful they are.

As for the new film, I thought it was very dull, until the last half hour reared its head. That last sequence was largely what I wanted from an Indy retirement film, and I thought it was a more than decent final step for the franchise into really entertaining schlock; pity it seemed to have been flown in from a totally different movie than the first 2+ hours of unleavened boredom. The shot of Helena Shaw looking back at the apartment at the end was, I thought, very touching...I just wish the rest of the movie had spent real time developing the relationship between her and Indy in order to get us to this point. It just didn't mean enough; there wasn't the chemistry there, quite, and I didn't feel Shaw coming to care about Indy over the course of their adventures; in the end it just seems that she suddenly does, much more than she did before the final sequence. And I know this is sacrilege, and Mads Mikkelsen is practically a Unesco world heritage site of an actor––but I thought his villain had almost no flavor or consistency at all. In general, the nazi villains didn't come off as very remarkable in this film––Mads in particular needs to have some clarity, as a character, and should ideally be that extra bit more entertaining––as the villains are in the first three films (this was a problem with Crystal Skull, also). Mads was like a killjoy, and his motivations are withheld for far too long for him to be a really interesting villain.

In the end, I was surprised by quite how much the idea of what an Indy movie should be had ossified around the first three movies––even Temple of Doom. So much of the things done in those first three movies was so entertaining it kind of spoils one for a movie in which the same elements are either average or mediocre. Why is a less than exceptional villain or sidekick such an issue in these later Indy films? Because the first three films handled these same elements so very well. The riotous buildup of unintended accidents and circumstances in the action scenes in the first three movies––something which seems like quintessential Spielberg––becomes so de rigueur for these films that the more typical "chase around places" action scenes of the new movie just don't feel right. I wonder if there wasn't a better chance, long ago, to hand the reins of these movies over to other filmmakers besides Spielberg, and maybe escape the trap of extraordinary expectations which made later installments of this franchise so disappointing. I keep wondering what filmmaker of the 90s would have made a cool movie out of that "Indiana Jones in a haunted house" idea Lucas had back then? If there had been some sort of handoff there, I feel like they could have taken the character and the adventures in some different directions. As it is, it's now too necessary to look at these later Indy movies in comparison to what they provided us in the past––and the filmmakers have not made any really significant attempts to change that.

[ntnon]

I really liked this one and I'd probably rank it 2nd after Raiders in the series' pecking order. Phoebe W-B completely walks off with the movie and I say more power to her, she's easily the best thing about it. Ford is hanging on by the skin of his teeth here, I thought he was too old to effectively play this character in 2008, and while his natural charisma is still there I could barely understand a word he was saying even with all the post synching and the theater's volume at teeth rattling levels.

I had no trouble understanding him - but I did think it distinctly odd (given the fake technologies that are being used left and right) that they didn't de-age his voice for the opening sequence..

SpoilerShow

This sets up the finale which I'll skip over describing except to say that it ranks a close to second to the opening of the ark in the first movie in terms of cinematic payoff. The movie has a chance to end right here but instead it unwisely adds a coda that...yeah, I really wish they'd just wrapped this up when they had the chance.

Completely disagree. The coda was The Correct End of the IJ saga that had been promised and denied by Skull, and as good of a final note as Crusade offered.

Dial serves as a nice redemption [for Skull]. It would be a shame if this is the last entry now that the series has gotten some new blood flowing. An even bigger shame would be going forward without P W-B taking over the lead role, she's just so completely at home here and as charismatic in the part as Ford ever was.

I wouldn't mind some Helena spin-offs, but they aren't necessary or wise. Lara Croft was the female Indy update, and despite a valiant effort.. it faltered. IJ works as well because of it's period setting - once you're in the space age, there's likely to be too much noise and extraneous baggage. Her "cash" mantra as the flipside to his "museum" was not more interesting, just a nice contrast.

[ntnon]

That sense of awe is substantially missing in both Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny, and I think it's to both films' detriment that we just seem to paw all over the artifacts in these movies, and treat them like functionary objects. The skull in Crystal Skull is a terrible conception from the start, but when it gets tossed around like a basketball all movie it loses any mystery or glamour––the dial of Dial of Destiny feels more like a macguffin than any of the objects in the previous films. I think that misses something crucial. These objects aren't macguffins used just to get the plot rolling; they are objects of significance and meaning in the stories.

Agreed, and well articulated. The only thing I will argue is that the Dial is a MacGuffin - the objects are Ark/Stones/Grail/Skull/Indy. He is what is found, saved and redeemed in this film - the dial is just (part of) the method.

The shot of Helena Shaw looking back at the apartment at the end was, I thought, very touching...I just wish the rest of the movie had spent real time developing the relationship between her and Indy in order to get us to this point. It just didn't mean enough; there wasn't the chemistry there, quite, and I didn't feel Shaw coming to care about Indy over the course of their adventures; in the end it just seems that she suddenly does, much more than she did before the final sequence.

I think the Helena/Indy relationship here is a nice parallel to the Marion/Indy relationship in Raiders. We know there's a history, a connection and a relationship; we get a clear sense of what those aspects probably mean to each party and roughly what and how their relationship developed, but.. it's essentially unsaid within the confines of the film.

And I know this is sacrilege, and Mads Mikkelsen is practically a Unesco world heritage site of an actor––but I thought his villain had almost no flavor or consistency at all. In general, the nazi villains didn't come off as very remarkable in this film––Mads in particular needs to have some clarity, as a character, and should ideally be that extra bit more entertaining––as the villains are in the first three films (this was a problem with Crystal Skull, also). Mads was like a killjoy, and his motivations are withheld for far too long for him to be a really interesting villain.

I tend to agree, but again, that's because he's not important. Belloq, Toht, Mola Ram, Donovan, Cate Blanchett.. none of them are really developed, they're just there to be foils and be foiled. They turn up conveniently, they almost succeed in their dastardly plans - or do succeed - but then eventually get their comeuppance. The Mads Professor is exactly the same character doing exactly the same thing.

In the end, I was surprised by quite how much the idea of what an Indy movie should be had ossified around the first three movies––even Temple of Doom. So much of the things done in those first three movies was so entertaining it kind of spoils one for a movie in which the same elements are either average or mediocre... As it is, it's now too necessary to look at these later Indy movies in comparison to what they provided us in the past––and the filmmakers have not made any really significant attempts to change that.

I certainly found this film to be yet another in the long line of (often belated) sequels that seem to just string together edited highlights of the earlier, popular films. Star Wars, Frozen, Superman, Ghostbusters, Jurassic World, Marvel sequels.. they all to an extent ape the set pieces of the beloved films... and OF COURSE they do, because that's (believed to be?) what the audience demands.

However, while many of those sequels are lackluster and disappointing in how they handle these remixings, I found this IJ z and the Jurassic sequels - to somehow manage to do it well. You could easily tick off the callbacks and evocations of specific scenes and moments and suggest that this film is 'just' a string of tableaux.. but they are stitched together with a reasonable plot and some smart choices. It works, and does the Greatest Hits thing well, perhaps partly because it commits to it and to the limitations of the character and actor('s age).

[captveg]

Her "cash" mantra as the flipside to his "museum" was not more interesting, just a nice contrast.

I considered that element a nice spin on the pre-mystical observances Indy that was after "fortune and glory" during the start of Temple of Doom. A good parallel character trait for Helena since age-wise she most closely matches that youngest (and most self-serving) version of Indy we've seen in the films.

The movie was fine. There's a couple things that end up having no payoff

SpoilerShow

(what happened to Indy's murder charge? Why didn't we also see the villains struggle through the bug part of the cave, making the inclusion of that moment rather pointless?),

but overall it was a solid movie. It needed some trimming in the action sequences to bring the film closer to the 2-hour mark, and maybe a middle-act

SpoilerShow

misdirect instead of just playing it straight plot-wise

in that section, but aside from these types of things - not too bad. Definitely never derails like the last 40-ish minutes of Crystal Skull.

[Mario G.]

The movie was fine. There's a couple things that end up having no payoff

SpoilerShow

(what happened to Indy's murder charge? Why didn't we also see the villains struggle through the bug part of the cave, making the inclusion of that moment rather pointless?),

I also enjoyed the movie quite a bit, but felt this a bit too.

SpoilerShow

Mads gets very conspicuously hit in the face in that prologue. It felt so obviously framed, I was sure he was hiding a disfigurement and/or this was a factor in his drive to go back in time. Toby Jones' character also feels suspiciously underutilized.

The movie definitely has a patchwork screenplay feel that also plagued the previous film. Overall though, I'm so enamored with the film's last scene that a lot of these flaws kind of melt away.

[barryconvex]

I really liked this one and I'd probably rank it 2nd after Raiders in the series' pecking order. Phoebe W-B completely walks off with the movie and I say more power to her, she's easily the best thing about it. Ford is hanging on by the skin of his teeth here, I thought he was too old to effectively play this character in 2008, and while his natural charisma is still there I could barely understand a word he was saying even with all the post synching and the theater's volume at teeth rattling levels.

I had no trouble understanding him - but I did think it distinctly odd (given the fake technologies that are being used left and right) that they didn't de-age his voice for the opening sequence..

SpoilerShow

This sets up the finale which I'll skip over describing except to say that it ranks a close to second to the opening of the ark in the first movie in terms of cinematic payoff. The movie has a chance to end right here but instead it unwisely adds a coda that...yeah, I really wish they'd just wrapped this up when they had the chance.

Completely disagree. The coda was The Correct End of the IJ saga that had been promised and denied by Skull, and as good of a final note as Crusade offered.

Dial serves as a nice redemption [for Skull]. It would be a shame if this is the last entry now that the series has gotten some new blood flowing. An even bigger shame would be going forward without P W-B taking over the lead role, she's just so completely at home here and as charismatic in the part as Ford ever was.

I wouldn't mind some Helena spin-offs, but they aren't necessary or wise. Lara Croft was the female Indy update, and despite a valiant effort.. it faltered. IJ works as well because of it's period setting - once you're in the space age, there's likely to be too much noise and extraneous baggage. Her "cash" mantra as the flipside to his "museum" was not more interesting, just a nice contrast.

SpoilerShow

I really wanted Indy to stay in Greece forever for numerous reasons not the least of which was it put me in mind of Bellocq's short soliloquy from "Raiders" about "merely passing through history" - Indy could've become the artifact that belongs in a museum, and at the very least it would've tied a nice bow on another of Bellocq's lines from the first movie: "Who knows? In 10,000 years even you may be worth something!"

[ntnon]

SpoilerShow

(what happened to Indy's murder charge? Why didn't we also see the villains struggle through the bug part of the cave, making the inclusion of that moment rather pointless?),

...but aside from these types of things - not too bad. Definitely never derails like the last 40-ish minutes of Crystal Skull.

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The news reports of him being wanted were clearly due to villain misdirect, and would likely never have resulted in real charges. I'd be more worried about explaining the 'current' whereabouts of the actual murderers..!

Your second point deliberately echoes Crusade, while the specifics are pointedly Doom. Not 'pointless', just callbacks.

[ntnon]

SpoilerShow

I really wanted Indy to stay in Greece forever for numerous reasons not the least of which was it put me in mind of Bellocq's short soliloquy from "Raiders" about "merely passing through history" - Indy could've become the artifact that belongs in a museum, and at the very least it would've tied a nice bow on another of Bellocq's lines from the first movie: "Who knows? In 10,000 years even you may be worth something!"

I toyed with that version, too. But..

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He needed to go back because of Marion - his major motivating moment for wanting to stay was the Mutt/Marion situation, after all, and running away never solves anything.
Second, Helena needed to save him - and she wasn't wrong that his presence would have changed history. (Though surely a Nazi aircraft would already be hard to explain..)

Given the throwaway that Archimedes only made the dial to get 'help' to that precise point, that would have been a neat timeloop - and it seemed to briefly explain why his corpse was wearing a watch until he handed it back.. that suggests a plothole or several, or a result of orphaned plot points.

For a few moments, it seemed as if Indy would take on the role of Archimedes. That would have been interesting, but would have needed a quicker journey to the past.

Perhaps the detail that bothered me most was that they entered an archaeological tourist attraction that apparently had a relatively-easily found trove of unearthed artifacts...

[hearthesilence]

Someone assembled all of Harrison Ford's scenes from that Young Indiana Jones episode he was in, though the bulk of it is just voiceover. Best part is seeing a very young Jeffrey Wright playing Sidney Bechet. (Also Ford's got the beard he was growing for The Fugitive.)

[hearthesilence]

Totally forgot that Dark Horse Comics published Indiana Jones comics back in the '90s, one of which was called Indiana Jones and the Spear of Destiny - I guess the last film may have been inspired to reference it at the beginning?

Anyway, I'm not sure if Lucasfilm ever considered adapting it as an Indiana Jones film - it sounds like they went through a lot of ideas for the fourth then fifth film - but given how the first film's climax recalled the famous one to Kiss Me Deadly (and the way that film and scene were inspired by the era's fear of nuclear war, something that figured in the four Indiana Jones film as well), it seems appropriate that the comic ends with a direct reference to the bomb:

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Would've been an interesting bit of synchronicity had the final Indiana Jones film ended in similar fashion, given Oppenheimer's release.