Michelangelo Antonioni

Discussion and info on people in film, ranging from directors to actors to cinematographers to writers.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#151 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:49 am

zedz wrote:Chung Kuo is being released by the admirable Carlotta Films in a couple of weeks (8 April). Based on past experience this ought to be an impeccable edition but unsubbed (in English, that is). MoC, are you listening?
It'll be the first subbed edition in any language... The materials do show their age (based on the Italian RAI/Feltrinelli edition) but it's a fascinating documentary and essential Antonioni... See also Chinese spokesman Renmin Ribao's official attack on the film, a pamphlet titled 'A Vicious Motive, Despicable Tricks', demonstrating how effective, innovative and potentially subversive MA's gaze was... (Extract & link in earlier post)

User avatar
kinjitsu
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Uffa!

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#153 Post by kinjitsu » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:58 pm

That set with book in ellipsis7's post was released by Feltrinelli in 2007 and a legit edition. If you bought another edition on eBay like this one (pic for reference only), then I'm afraid you might have been ripped-off. Surely a legitimate subbed version will turn up eventually.

User avatar
The Fanciful Norwegian
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm
Location: Teegeeack

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#155 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:02 am

The Chinese boot is a copy of the Feltrinelli version. The bootleggers (whoever they are -- the copies I've seen are from WX, but they might just be ripping off someone else's bootleg) simply added the English subs that have been circulating online for awhile now, along with the obligatory Chinese subs. If anyone here would like a copy of the subtitles, I'll upload them to Rapidshare or something.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#156 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:40 am

Anyway clearly the French Carlotta release will be only the second legit release and the first properly and professionally subtitled in any language - this forum really isn't concerned with bootlegs...

The Italian script of CHUNG KUO CINA was published in 1974 by Einaudi, and can still be picked up...

Image

UPDATE: Have the Carlotta set now. A nice transfer - apparently the materials have undergone some restoration, but still show their age and some damage - however I think it's a clearer crisper more colour saturated image than my Italian Feltrinelli/RAI set... The French subs are really excellent and helpful in appreciating the films, and there's nearly an hour of extras, consisting of a piece (in Italian with French subs) from Antonioni scholar and friend Carlo di Carlo who was also present in 2004 at the first public showing of CHUNG KUO CINA before a Chinese audience, and a contextual piece by Pierre Haski sketching out the political, economic and social circumstances of the China in which Antonioni filmed... A 36 page colour booklet includes reproductions of a piece by Carlo di Carlo for the programme of that 2004 Chinese showing at the Beijing Film Academy, Antonioni's essay prefacing the published script "Is it still possible to film a documentary?", the text of the Chinese pamphlet attacking the film "Vicious Motive, Despicable Tricks - a critique of the anti-Chinese film of Michelangelo Antonioni", and contemporary writings on the film and the power of image by Serge Daney and Susan Sontag, plus a selection of production stills and the French release poster...

User avatar
Barmy
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:59 pm

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#157 Post by Barmy » Wed May 20, 2009 3:08 pm

Antonioni's last script in development.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#158 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed May 20, 2009 4:52 pm

Like most of his latter works it is drawn from previous stories or treatments - this from 'Two Telegrams' in 'That Bowling Alley on the Tiber' pub. 1993, when then it was to be MA's next project in production... Another project from original writings also developed to script around the same time (1990) is 'The Crew' (developed with Mark Peploe)... Would be fascinating if either or both were made with the right director, cast, sensibility etc...
Last edited by ellipsis7 on Thu May 21, 2009 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stefan Andersson
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 am

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#159 Post by Stefan Andersson » Thu May 21, 2009 9:44 am

JUST THE WAY YOU ARE and DESTINAZIONE VERNA were two other late Antonioni projects. The first was developed for Johnny Depp and Robin Wright Penn, with Atom Egoyan as standby director. One reason it fell through was allegedly Wright Penn´s decision to star in MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE instead. DESTINAZIONE VERNA, starring Sophia Loren and Anthony Hopkins, based on a Jack Finney short story, fell through when producers declined Sophia Loren´s son as standby director. Some Googling and looking through several pages of hits will get you bits of general info but no real details.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#160 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu May 21, 2009 10:10 am

Over at the Unfinished Films strand...
Ovader wrote:Antonioni had two abandoned film productions in the late 90s.

Just To Be Together: The $11 million English-language drama originally was to start shooting on Los Angeles locations in February 1998. The cast included Robin Wright Penn, Sam Shepard, Winona Ryder, Johnny Depp and Andy Garcia. Wright Penn, who was to play the central character, withdrew for personal reasons. Atom Egoyan was signed on as a backup director but the delays conflicted with Egoyan's schedule. The story dealt with a successful urban-planning architect who divides her affections between her husband (Shepard) and her lover (Garcia). Antonioni and Rudy Wurlitzer adapted the film from the director's 1974 short story, "Two Telegrams."

Destinazione Verna: A woman buys a ticket to live on a planet called Destinazione Verna. Written with Tonino Guerra and was to be produced by Felice Laudadio in 1999. The cast included Anthony Hopkins, Sophia Loren, Naomi Campbell, Laura Morante, Stefania Rocca, Kim Rossi Stuart, Carlo Cecchi and Chiara Caselli.
So 'Just to be Together' (or 'Just the Way You Are') is the 'Two Telegrams' project under another name... This is now being resurrected...

Robin Davies
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:00 am

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#161 Post by Robin Davies » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:25 am

I see "Beyond the Clouds" is getting a Region 2 release. I hope it has the closing monologue which was missing from the old US DVD from Image Entertainment.

User avatar
bigP
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#162 Post by bigP » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:42 am

I've not managed to see Beyond the Clouds before, but the Second Sight UK release I saw last night did end with a long Malkovich monologue, beginning something like "The director's profession is a very particular one..." I hope this helps.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#163 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:58 am

Yes, the French disc PAR-DELA LES NUAGES, also includes the ending long monologue by Malkovich, and has a DD 5.1 mix, whereas the old R1 Image OOP disc and, it appears this Second Sight, have DD 2.0 mixes...
Last edited by ellipsis7 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Robin Davies
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:00 am

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#164 Post by Robin Davies » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:15 am

bigP wrote:I've not managed to see Beyond the Clouds before, but the Second Sight UK release I saw last night did end with a long Malkovich monologue, beginning something like "The director's profession is a very particular one..."
Thanks for the info. The old R1 release actually ends with the sentence "The director's profession is a very particular one" followed only by music. The release date for the Second Sight DVD is tomorrow so I didn't expect anyone would have seen it yet!

User avatar
martin
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:16 am
Contact:

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#165 Post by martin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:11 am

I'm curious about the aspect ratio and general image quality on the UK Beyond the Clouds disc (which I haven't seen yet). The German Arthaus and the French Universal discs are quite different in a lot of areas. The French disc is 1.66:1 pillarboxed, which is probably the correct AR, but it is pinched, isn't it? The German is 1.78:1 but - at least to my eyes - seems to have the correct proportions (or is it the other way around?). There are also some significant differences colorwise (TOP: German Arthaus - BOTTOM: French Universal):

Image

Image

There's another example in this post on a Danish board, which shows much better skin tones and "texture" on the German disc.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#166 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:33 am

I have the French Universal and the US Image disc, await the UK Second Sight disc, the French DVD looks fine to me projected onto a large screen, and has the added benefit of the crisp DD5.1 audio mix... Even with those frame grabs above, although a little washed out, the French one is much closer to the colour balance and skin tones in the numerous colour production stills of the scenes taken by Wim Wenders in Portofino, include one particular virtually matching this frame, as reproduced in his 'Die Zeit Mit Antonioni'... Point is Portofino is in grey wintry empty off season (MA filmed this episode there from 3rd to 11th November 1994), contrasting to busy bright summer high season when it is playground for rich yachtsmen and haven for tourist visits...

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#167 Post by zedz » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:42 pm

david hare wrote:I concur with ellips in favor of the French disc which I also agree looks pretty spectacular blown through a projection system. The correct ratio surely is 1.78 as it would seem idiosyncratic for MA to revert to the old 1.66 so late in his career after embracing widescreen fervently from the early 60s.
I haven't seen either disc (or the film), but doesn't that mean that the French disc is the wrong AR? In the grabs above the image does look laterally squashed.

User avatar
martin
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:16 am
Contact:

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#168 Post by martin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:04 am

david hare wrote:zedz is must be the capture software.
No, it's not the capture software. I have both the German and the French disc (plus an Asian) and I've grabbed the images under exact same conditions. I could present many more comparison shots, but since this is a general Antonioni thread I thougt one comparison would be sufficient. I did however link to another screenshot comparison (a close-up of Inès Sastre which is quite different on the German and French releases). Just to be clear: There's no doubt that the French disc is 1.66:1 presented in a pillarboxed 16:9 frame, while the German is 1.78:1 (16:9 full-frame).

The strange thing is that if the French release had true 1.66.1 format, the image should have more information at the top and bottom than the German 1.78:1 release, but this is not the case. One of the two releases is certainly in a wrong ratio! To me the French looks pinched (like the pre-MOC Muriel releases) but it's also possible (but not very likely, I think) that the German release is stretched horizontally.

The new Second Sight release seems to be like the French one if the images in this review are a true representation of the new Second Sight-disc.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#169 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:39 am

Looking at the French disc & the grab above it does seem definitely slightly pinched, and the characters thinner than in the matching large format production still I referrred too - however while I am getting similar pillarboxing when pictures are projected from both French & UK disc, the two pictures are not identical, seeming to point to two different transfers... The picture on the UK disc actually does not seem that pinched, I am getting a decent picture which fairly matches the production still (the breadth of shoulders of the two characters I suppose is a good measure)... Closer inspection of the French disc - in particular the head of the cafe scene, comparing the position of the lintel over the doorway - shows the the French picture has been stretched vertically and cropped top and bottom, there's some missing picture that's there on the UK disc...

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#170 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:47 am

I'm not getting combing and ghosting with the French disc on my system, David, but do note this review by 'movieman.de' that amazon.de have posted in their editorial on the German disc (a Google translation).....
Image: The image has some weaknesses, but is still quite reasonable for a ten year old film. Noise is present and fall times stronger, sometimes weaker (00:27:04). The colors are a bit reluctant to look very real, but could certainly tolerate a little more vitality. The contrast is mostly ok, except now and then weakens (00:37:29); cable against clouds. In addition, the film is largely fallen a bit dark, even in brightly lit scenes. The template has been very well maintained, and occasionally falls on the age, however, such as at 01:14:18, when seen as three stripes in the picture. The sharpness is pleasant, but no more.
Seems we can't win, but will have to make do with the best we've got (probably the UK Second Sight IMHO)...

Made a train trek to Portofino this summer to see the location and work out how MA approached the physicality of the place and shot this ep - fascinating....

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#171 Post by TMDaines » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:36 pm

La Signora Senza Camelie is being released by Medusa in Italy so it should be good.

I can't find specs but it's 99.99% likely that it won't have English subs and it will just have Italian HoH subs.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#172 Post by ellipsis7 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:20 am

The disc of LA SIGNORA SENZA CAMELIE from the French Carlotta Antonioni Coffret is probably still the best bet, as it is subtitled in French and contains two valuable extras, his documentary shorts N.U./NETTEZZA URBANA (1948) & SETTE CANNE, UN VESTITO (1949)... The same set contains the best transfer of CRONACA DI UN AMORE (again with French subs), which incidentally is considerably less cropped than the US R1 DVD from No Shame (with Eng subs obviously)...

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#173 Post by TMDaines » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:19 pm

Do you have the French boxset? I received a copy of the now OOP two disk release of Cronaca from Surf Video in Italy today and the picture looked good. Much better than the screenshots I've seen of the NoShame and Bongo releases. Be interested to compare some screencaps. I wouldn't be surprised if they were almost identical.

User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#174 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:52 am

I do have the French Carlotta set, but confess ignorance of how to extract screen grabs...

UPDATE: I've now had some helpful guidance from a fellow forum member, so here goes with three grabs from the Carlotta CRONACA...

Image

Image

Image

Compares with No Shame...

Image

Lots of combing apparent on the No Shame...

Image

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Michelangelo Antonioni

#175 Post by TMDaines » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:14 pm

Thanks. I'll grab some off the Italian release later.

Post Reply