35-37 Naruse: Volume One

[Michael Kerpan]

I don't Tanaka "falls" into her roles -- she throws herself into them. And she wasn't always "plain", she was quite a cutie back in her younger days. Here she is in I Graduated But (Ozu, 1929):

[knives]

What I meant by plain is that she's not so physically distinct like Ryu or Sugimura that you have to recognize she's on the camera. There's the character and nothing more. I do like your throw better than my fall though, no duplication present.

[ambrose]

What I meant by plain is that she's not so physically distinct like Ryu or Sugimura that you have to recognize she's on the camera. There's the character and nothing more. I do like your throw better than my fall though, no duplication present.

The fact that the maid character played by Miss.Tanaka is referred to by the Geishas as "Oharu" after they decide that her original Korean name is too unfamiliar is both an in-joke and an acknowledgment of her iconic status!. (And her instant recognizability.)

[Michael Kerpan]

Tanaka's original name in Flowing isn't Korean (I believe) but just old-fashioned and/or bumpkin-sounding -- in the mind of Yamada's character. I do not believe Aya Koda's novel has been translated -- so I have not been able to determine if Naruse's team invented the Oharu re-naming or whether it occurs in the novel. Since the novel was published in the mid-50s, Koda could have been aware of the Mizoguchi film (Life of Oharu). I would note, however, Oharu is probably a perfectly normal geisha-world name -- so it may have had no particular significance.

[zedz]

I agree with your assessment of Flowing, knives. It's my favourite Naruse film (so far), and what I really love about it is how the characters and relationships have the depth and heft of real life.

And lucky you, discovering Kinuyo Tanaka! You've got some amazing performances ahead of you (though her turn in Flowing is by any measure one of her best: one of the biggest stars in Japan and yet she's completely self-effacing and at the service of the ensemble).

[ambrose]

Tanaka's original name in Flowing isn't Korean (I believe) but just old-fashioned and/or bumpkin-sounding -- in the mind of Yamada's character. I do not believe Aya Koda's novel has been translated -- so I have not been able to determine if Naruse's team invented the Oharu re-naming or whether it occurs in the novel. Since the novel was published in the mid-50s, Koda could have been aware of the Mizoguchi film (Life of Oharu). I would note, however, Oharu is probably a perfectly normal geisha-world name -- so it may have had no particular significance.

You are obviously right about the original name Mr.Kerpan! I have just examined Catherine Russell's book (which I really should have done before posting) and as the novel was a semi-autobiographical work with the maid character acting as Koda's surrogate I could not have been more mistaken in my assumptions! (The reason behind my misreading of that role might have been the overtones of cultural as well as class contempt directed towards the maid but as the character,at least in the film, was rural it was probably just snobbery.)

[Michael Kerpan]

I think Yamada's character's renaming of Oharu was more a manifestation of her head-in-the-clouds aesthettic hyper-nicety than any sort of mean-spirited snobbery -- no mental intent to show contempt.

[knives]

she's completely self-effacing and at the service of the ensemble.

That's without a doubt the aspect that endeared me the most to her. It's obvious she has the talent to take control of the film, but she allowed for her vanity to slide and just become a part of the ensemble. That takes the most talent.

[ambrose]

I think Yamada's character's renaming of Oharu was more a manifestation of her head-in-the-clouds aesthetic hyper-nicety than any sort of mean-spirited snobbery -- no mental intent to show contempt.

That is the most insidious form of snobbery! The fact that Miss Yamada's character is so unselfconscious about seeking to aestheticize Miss Tanaka's character's name shows an innate sense of social superiority!. (She believes that she is naturally entitled.)

[Michael Kerpan]

I have to defend Yamada's character -- she really lives in a dreamland. It's not so much a matter of "entitlement", but a sense that everything ought to be beautiful. In the geisha world, it's not a question of _social_ superiority -- but of artistic accomplishment (and skilfulness as hostess).

[dad1153]

OK Kerpan, you (and hopefully I) win. It has begun! :)

[manicsounds]

OK Kerpan, you (and hopefully I) win. It has begun!

Good, you've obviously read my PM to you.

[dad1153]

Yes I got that... you'll be hearing from my lawyer! :wink:

Naruse's "Mother" is the 'TCM Import' feature Sunday overnight at 2:30AM ET (11:30PM PT) on TCM (US).

[bottled spider]

Initial perplexity on first viewing Sound of the Mountain became enthusiasm & admiration on the third. Greatly enjoyed the novel too, and looking forward watching the film again from that perspective.

Not getting much joy out of Snow Country. Is Siedensticker the right translation?

[Michael Kerpan]

Initial perplexity on first viewing Sound of the Mountain became enthusiasm & admiration on the third. Greatly enjoyed the novel too, and looking forward watching the film again from that perspective.

Glad to hear you are getting into synch with Naruse. (Sound like my history of agetting acclimated to Floating Clouds).

Not getting much joy out of Snow Country. Is Siedensticker the right translation?

I don't believe there is any other translation available. I suspect this is something that is proably hard to translate effectively.

[bottled spider]

Not getting much joy out of Snow Country. Is Siedensticker the right translation?

I don't believe there is any other translation available. I suspect this is something that is probably hard to translate effectively.

Well that simplifies things, at least. There's such a bewildering array of translators to choose from for, say, Dostoevsky. With Snow Country much more than with The Sound of the Mountain -- probably because of the widely different milieu -- I feel I'm missing the subtext of much of the dialog.

[Michael Kerpan]

With Snow Country much more than with The Sound of the Mountain -- probably because of the widely different milieu -- I feel I'm missing the subtext of much of the dialog.

I fantasize that some day I will be able to read Japanese prose more complex than that found in manga aimed at kids (and without having to check the dictionary too often).

[hangman]

[I fantasize that some day I will be able to read Japanese prose more complex than that found in manga aimed at kids (and without having to check the dictionary too often).

From what I've heard from friends who can read Japanese the Siedensticker isn't that good and so you definitely will be missing a lot of the subtext - especially with Snow Country as it loses a lot of its poetry and at times the text might come out awkward. However, its your only choice of English translation, well there was the translation of the abbreviated version of Snow Country which supposedly is far better translated - wasn't done by Siedensticker - its part of a collection of other short stories of Kawabata translated in a collection Palm-of-the-Hand Stories by Holman & Dunlop (well I'm reading her translation of Floating Clouds and I think her translation has been great) so you can search for that.

[bottled spider]

Thanks. If I can't find it locally, Palm-of-the-Hand is available through ABE books.

Some more comments about SotM (film):
- on repeat viewings, the young girl (I mean Shingo's granddaughter) became a more poignant figure, hovering mutely in the background, unlikable and bewildered.
- Shuichi remains a dickhead, but it became more apparent that he is a suffering man.
- Shingo and his daughter-in-law remain likable, but become less innocent
- I don't know how to explain it, but the film seems very rhythmical

(Forgive me for remembering the names of the male characters and forgetting the female ones).

[Michael Kerpan]

Thanks. If I can't find it locally, Palm-of-the-Hand is available through ABE books.

Palm of the Hand also has the very short story that served as the source for Shimizu's marvelous Mr. Thank You. ;~}

[peerpee]

All remaining stock destroyed in the Sony DADC fire. Now officially OOP and not being repressed. Grab one if you see one!

[Michael Kerpan]

All remaining stock destroyed in the Sony DADC fire. Now officially OOP and not being repressed. Grab one if you see one!

How terribly sad. ;~{

[peerpee]

That release signified a real highpoint in the DVD boom, from my perspective. Lavish packaging, 180-page heavy book, commentary track on one of the films. We wouldn't do something like that now -- it would be more like the Lubitsch box if we did -- but our focus is now on Blu-ray... so it wouldn't happen at all. It was an interesting time - unlikely to happen again I'm afraid. Technology is moving fast.

[artfilmfan]

It is sad indeed to see this set going OOP. Many thanks to Eureka/MoC and peerpee for releasing this set. This is my most cherished MoC release. I did my part in purchasing this set, more than once.

[Askew]

All remaining stock destroyed in the Sony DADC fire. Now officially OOP and not being repressed. Grab one if you see one!

Thanks I just ordered one of the last copies Amazon had left. I've been meaning to pick this one up for ages, I'm sad to hear it's now OOP.