BD 274-276 Andrzej Żuławski: Three Films

[thirtyframesasecond]

Is the consensus to give this a skip for now then?

[ryannichols7]

Is the consensus to give this a skip for now then?

or is the German release fully acceptable?

the issue here is Eureka has pretty good extras, so may be worth the punt even if the quality isn't there

EDIT: damn I forgot the Camera Obscura lacks English subs, I have their Dead Mountaineer's Hotel which has them, so I assumed the same here. my German is pretty solid but not enough for that to be worthwhile, especially for a blind buy! would mondo go for the original art? not familiar with their usual offerings

[therewillbeblus]

I dunno, unless the audio is out of sync or abysmal, it seems... fine? They spread everything out over more discs, the picture quality looks pretty fantastic to me, and if we're going to boycott releases based on the colorization of every European film, we'll own very little. Sounds like the severity of the audio issue is the only thing really keeping people on the fence - this wasn't causing too much of a stir til that became the straw to break the back. As of now, I'm planning to order it.

[Peacock]

If you do want to hold off for the Mondo release I understand they are intending to put out a UHD set of these films in 2036. Don’t worry it’ll fly by!

I don’t have my hands on the Eureka set and yeah the artwork isn’t as pretty, and the audio on one film is a stereo downmix, it’s a shame Daniel Bird didn’t notice it but I suppose there’s only so many times they can delay this set.

Gary didn’t mention any audio issues so fingers crossed it’s not a major deal. Anyway this is a limited edition set so by all means hold off and I’ll sell you a copy on eBay once it’s out of print.

Otherwise wait 13 years for Mondo.

[ikms]

Gary didn’t mention any audio issues so fingers crossed it’s not a major deal. Anyway this is a limited edition set so by all means hold off and I’ll sell you a copy on eBay once it’s out of print.

I have only ever watched Silver Globe off of the 2016 Japanese BD with the 5.1 mix and the last thing I was concerned with was the presentation of the audio - it never even occurred to me it was "wrong." Where did it come from, wasn't Zulawski involved in the restoration before his death? Are we sure the film was mono when it was completed in 1988 AND those restoration screenings? Regardless I am sure copies on ebay will be going for several hundred quid in a year's time.

[AxeYou]

Gary didn’t mention any audio issues so fingers crossed it’s not a major deal.

"Professional" reviewers rarely, if ever, seem to notice even the most severe audio defects. Few of what Moshrom published on his blog are mentioned elsewhere, but the comparison clips reveal huge AQ differences: https://blah-ray.blogspot.com. The most comical one is probably https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/01/t ... -1939.html

I pre-ordered the Eureka release before this news broke. However, I still appreciate the extras (on-disc & printed) they've put out. Sigh but I'll probably end up double-dipping for the Camera Obscura set and do my own remux.

[Robin Davies]

This set is a colossal improvement on my three old DVDs so I'm happy.

[MichaelB]

"Professional" reviewers rarely, if ever, seem to notice even the most severe audio defects.

Annoyingly, they also don't notice significant improvements. I put a ton of work into cleaning up the audio on Indicator's Thunderbolt - and the hard way, eschewing blanket filtering in favour of manually editing out loud pops and thumps - and thus far only one reviewer has noticed that it sounded better than it did before. And I should be grateful for that, as much of the time nobody notices at all - or, worse, they blithely report that the audio is identical to an earlier release, even though this demonstrably isn't the case. (They may well have an identical rightsholder-supplied source - in fact, this is more likely than otherwise - but that doesn't mean that a conscientious label can't improve on it.)

Of course, the problem with a soundtrack like Thunderbolt's is that it's never going to sound like Dolby Atmos and nor should it - one of the absolute worst things you can do with audio of that vintage is try to filter out the hiss, because you'll inevitably end up scraping away part of the original audio (something that Moshrom has noted on many, many occasions). So it still sounds like a soundtrack from 1929, hiss, low fidelity, the lot, and as a result it may not even occur to reviewers that anything could have been done to it.

See also the upcoming Tod Slaughter box, although in this case the muffled crappiness of the public-domain versions is so notorious that I suspect/hope people might actually notice the vast improvements this time! Again, these have been painstakingly cleaned up manually, apart from The Face at the Window whose existing master sounded fine.

[AxeYou]

We need more conscientious people like you at the helms, Michael!

one of the absolute worst things you can do with audio of that vintage is try to filter out the hiss, because you'll inevitably end up scraping away part of the original audio (something that Moshrom has noted on many, many occasions). So it still sounds like a soundtrack from 1929, hiss, low fidelity, the lot, and as a result it may not even occur to reviewers that anything could have been done to it.

There’s still so much public misconception around this that people associate hiss with “age-related defects,” but the filtered and muffled sound was “just how it was.” Might it be possible for labels to include a title card on disc, or at least a paragraph in the booklet, explaining that hiss, much like grain, is detail? Filtering it is exactly like D(V)NR. Eureka still feels the need to instruct viewers on their booklets to disable motion smoothing for example. So an extra note on audio from a label isn’t unfathomable. It would at least spread the knowledge beyond niche (but excellent) blogs like Moshrom’s and the all-too-rare forum ramblings here and there.

[MichaelB]

I assume that's you asking about The Devil on Blu-ray.com - I'm banned for life from there, so I'll answer your question here: the erroneous Eureka version of The Devil was never released because the problem was caught at the production stage. Basically, they'd inadvertently been sent an older restoration with grading that hadn't been approved by cinematographer Andrzej Jaroszewicz, which is why there was a delay to the release while they sorted out the correct one.

[AxeYou]

Thanks, Michael! Yes it was me just now. Ah I mistakenly assumed that user was saying the German release would be worth the wait. My bad.

I'm banned for life from there

I assume it was because of the Dekalog debacle. I'd wear it like badge of honor

[MichaelB]

I don't think it was specifically because of that, but my cards were clearly marked from that moment on. But if a prominent reviewer is peddling demonstrably inaccurate and commercially damaging misinformation about something that I worked on, am I supposed to just lie back and take it?

If I remember rightly, the last post I made - so presumably the reason why I got banned - was to mention Blu-ray.com's notorious five-star rating for Criterion's Shoah, which was criticised quite a bit even at the time and which now looks completely ludicrous when set against the clearly superior Eureka encode. They get incredibly touchy about even strongly evidence-backed criticism over there, and prefer to ban the people behind the criticism rather than do something sensible like addressing the area being criticised.

This is also why Tenia of this parish is banned from there - and you'd have thought that someone so clearly knowledgeable and informative would be a major asset to any forum. (It's pretty much impossible to imagine him ever being banned from here!)

[tenia]

This is also why Tenia of this parish is banned from there

Yes, basically, I clashed a few too many times with either stubborn Svet or people aligning with him and not understanding why his take might be problematic.

In my specific case also, it happened at the time when he started to clearly use his reviews as political springboard but also after years of preferential treatment in favor of Criterion, and I'll never know if I got banned precisely for challenging his reactionary take on Criterion's release of Festival or his incomplete review of Criterion's release of Fire Walk With Me (which spends lots of time comparing the release to the French OOP region locked french-subbed-forced release rather than the CBS-Paramount release - which makes no sense both technically AND for a US-centric website).

My biggest issue with that is that I used to fill a good amount of their release pages, especially for French stuff and/or as soon as I had received test discs, which I can't do anymore, but also precise things in the boards for those same releases (which I of course also can't do anymore, meaning either questions are going to remain answer-less or, more problematic, mistakes are going to be left uncorrected).

It's really a lose-lose situation because it's frustrating for me and a loss of factual info for them, but that's what they prefer over letting debatable reviews being debated (and they're now more debated than ever anyway).

(It's pretty much impossible to imagine him ever being banned from here!)

I do hope you're right !

[thirtyframesasecond]

This set is a colossal improvement on my three old DVDs so I'm happy.

I went ahead and bought it anyway. I'm not technical enough to notice what hasn't been done perfectly, and as you say, it's an improvement over the past releases. I had a Polish DVD of OTSG, so it will be nice to see the film cleaned up, in any form.

[AxeYou]

This set is a colossal improvement on my three old DVDs so I'm happy.

I had a Polish DVD of OTSG, so it will be nice to see the film cleaned up, in any form.

Those of you who have On the Silver Globe on DVD, was it presented in mono or stereo / surround over there? If it’s mono, which release is it?

[Peacock]

I’ve only watched The Devil and On the Silver Globe so far but I highly recommend the set to everyone on the fence.

I was concerned the blacks were a bit crushed in the latter film’s Beaver caps but it’s really not noticeable in motion on my projector. Sound wise, I’m listening with a pretty low-end 5 speaker set-up and it sounded completely great to me but I will bow to the expertise of others on here with superior sound systems and a knowledge of how the film should sound.

The Devil isn’t really the prettiest of films, so I’m glad it was re-colour graded as I can’t imagine what it must have looked like before!

Haven’t had a chance to delve into the extras yet but looking forward to soon. The outer case is sturdy and extremely tight with the two blu-ray cases and booklet inside, but a good shake will loosen things enough to pull out.

The Devil is a cruder Żuławski than his later films; shaky handheld, natural lighting, mud everywhere and actor’s sometimes struggling to remember their complex dialogue. The female roles aren’t as developed here either. Not my favourite of his films by any means but the relationship between the lead and the giddy Stranger makes it worth the price of admission.

On the Silver Globe is truly an epic, spanning decades, maybe even hundreds of years as it follows a group of astronauts who colonise a barren planet. There’s a definite Chariots of the Gods vibe as it charts the birth of religion and societal hierarchy. It’s also an early example of the found footage genre with the majority of it being filmed by the character’s themselves. Żuławski brilliantly almost makes up for the numerous omitted scenes by featuring abstract imagery, which sometimes relates to the narrative around them, as he delivers a voiceover explaining the action.

Unfortunately at some moments where we repeatedly cut back to Żuławski’s voiceover segments it disrupts the flow a little too much, so I definitely always felt like an outsider watching these characters rather than in their heads.

But still, a stunning and admirably ambitious achievement.

[charal]

I think the film would work fine without the cut-aways but it has been said that Zulawski wanted to emphasise the fact that his original film was purposely butchered and so I suppose we have to accept this hybrid version as his belated final version.

This argument concerning the original mono audio baffles me. I had no problems with the audio used by Eureka. It sounded fine to me.

[Adam X]

The film wasn’t butchered. They were forced to stop filming before it was completed.

[MichaelB]

Well, it depends on how you define "butchered", and I suspect Żuławski would endorse the term. Because the end result was much the same as heavy censorship, only worse because the missing footage wasn't restorable, on account of it never having been shot in the first place.

And yes, he very much wanted to stress throughout, with regular reminders, that the film was forcibly unfinished, after deciding that it was impossible to salvage a coherent film with 20% of it missing.

[Peacock]

May I add to my above comments. There is unfortunately a handful of typos and missing words in the subtitles for The Devil. Not sure who subtitled them or who was the quality control person on this release to have missed them. You can still work out what was intended to be said though, nothing too confusing.

I spotted just one or two in On the Silver Globe, which was approved by Żuławski himself so maybe the quality control person was more hesitant about bringing them up if they spotted them.

Definitely nothing close to a deal breaker, very happy about this release, but the typos could have been avoided.

[Drucker]

Nearly sold out

[TMDaines]

Gutted to have missed out on this. Been offline for a few days and every copy has gone. No chance of more being printed?

[swo17]

They'll probably eventually put out separate releases without a book, like they just did for the Joseph Kuo set

[criterionsnob]

I ended up with two copies of this due to a shipping error. My sealed second copy is currently listed on eBay, but happy to sell it to anyone here. PM me if interested.

[Updated: Now sold.]

[bfletcher]

OrbitDVD got stock of the set today (Thurs Oct 12)

Still available as I type this…

https://www.orbitdvd.com/products/andrz ... n-region-b