The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

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A man stayed-put
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#201 Post by A man stayed-put » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:46 am

Just came on to post this link myself. Yes, anyone who can, please support this- 467 signatures and counting so far.

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MichaelB
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#202 Post by MichaelB » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:15 am

That's very impressive - it had only just hit triple figures when I signed, and that can't have been more than a couple of hours ago.

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manicsounds
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#203 Post by manicsounds » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:10 pm

Would it be bad for non-UK residents to sign it by "lying" about the postcode for residency?

David M.
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#204 Post by David M. » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:24 pm

I don't think so, given that it affects people who import these titles as well.

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swo17
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#205 Post by swo17 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:33 pm

But would it perhaps nullify the petition?

wllm995
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#206 Post by wllm995 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:08 am

swo17 wrote:But would it perhaps nullify the petition?
Probably only if the BBFC reads your comments here.

[-X

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manicsounds
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#207 Post by manicsounds » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

swo17 wrote:But would it perhaps nullify the petition?
What I'm afraid of... but it does seem to be getting signatures pretty quickly.

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HJackson
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#208 Post by HJackson » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:07 pm

Done. Now can somebody start one to get snout-in-trough expenses cheat Maria Miller sacked?

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newwavefilms
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#209 Post by newwavefilms » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:42 pm

Seeing as it's unlikely she'll go, if each of the hopefully 3,000 signatories also chipped in £1.94 each, her problem would be solved and she might even be grateful. Crowd funding in action...

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manicsounds
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#210 Post by manicsounds » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:27 pm

Question:

If small companies put featurettes and making-ofs online instead of on the physical discs, does that still have to be classified by the BBFC?
Also, no one seems to be taking advantage of BD-Live anymore, no small labels have. Do BD-Live extras have to be classified as well? It's not on the physical disc.

Like a lot of old DVDs had DVD-ROM access to official websites, but I don't believe the BBFC ever had to classify the actual website since it wasn't on the disc.

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manicsounds
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#211 Post by manicsounds » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:47 am

Now passed 3000 signatures. But it's not stopping there! Out of 4,000 is the new goal...

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MichaelB
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#212 Post by MichaelB » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:48 am

Although it shouldn't be addressed to Maria Miller any more.

(I nearly wrote "the late Maria Miller", but she's not actually dead.)

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AidanKing
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#213 Post by AidanKing » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:02 pm

The latest issue of Sight and Sound has an article about the effect of BBFC changes and charges on independent labels, in which it is suggested that the non-appearance of Out 1 on DVD in the UK may be down to the costs of having a film of that length classified by the BBFC, which seems entirely plausible. It is also suggested that other long films, although shorter than Out 1, such as Wajda's The Ashes, could be affected in the same way.

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MichaelB
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#214 Post by MichaelB » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:10 pm

Although the Out 1 argument predates the recent policy change: it would have cost a fortune to classify at any point since the introduction of the Video Recordings Act thirty years ago.

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AidanKing
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#215 Post by AidanKing » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:13 am

Indeed, and I wonder if that's one of the reasons it's never appeared in the UK.

With regard to other long films, I suppose Second Run might have a view on whether a release of The Ashes would be viable taking into account the costs of classification.

The article suggests that the BBFC used to operate with a reduced rate for classifying subtitled films. It also argues that that reduced rates could be re-introduced if the initial print run is intended to be below a certain number. Based on the assumption that the UK government is unlikely to legislate to remove the requirement for classification, that sounds like a good idea, presuming it would be practicable.

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TMDaines
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#216 Post by TMDaines » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:20 am


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domino harvey
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#217 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:47 am

A Reddit user crowdfunded a ten hour film of literal paint drying in order to afford to submit it to the BBFC in protest of their policies. He is answering questions on the screening here

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MichaelB
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#218 Post by MichaelB » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:07 am

This has got to be one of the most pointlessly empty gestures in living memory.

First of all, how exactly does giving the BBFC lots of money constitute an effective protest against them? Granted, they have to watch the end result, but I suspect after a couple of days of wall-to-wall hardcore porn and toddlers' videos BBFC examiners will find it a welcome relief.

And secondly, it's a complete waste of money anyway, because BBFC approval wouldn't be required for something like this - even under the recently-tightened documentary guidelines, this footage would be exempt from classification.

In fact, if I was the BBFC I'd call his bluff by simply returning his submission with a note pointing out that it's not necessary.

David M.
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#219 Post by David M. » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:32 pm

It certainly has its problems (notably giving BBFC a ton of cash), but I still can't think of a better way to to get news outlets talking about the problem.

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rapta
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#220 Post by rapta » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:40 pm

domino harvey wrote:A Reddit user crowdfunded a ten hour film of literal paint drying in order to afford to submit it to the BBFC in protest of their policies. He is answering questions on the screening here
That 'Reddit user' is Charlie Lyne, who used to run the blog Ultra Culture, and now writes for The Guardian. He directed the documentaries Beyond Clueless and Fear Itself.

But yes, I agree with MichaelB that the exercise itself is somewhat futile. That said, perhaps the media will take some notice now...and more importantly, the public should be made aware of the debate too.

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kidc85
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#221 Post by kidc85 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:49 pm

The BBFC rated it a U.
BBFC wrote:Note: The following text may contain spoilers

PAINT DRYING is a film showing paint drying on a wall.

It contains no material likely to offend or harm.

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colinr0380
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#222 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:25 pm

I suppose it is nice to have that confirmation that the filmmakers used non-toxic paint!

McCrutchy
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#223 Post by McCrutchy » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:35 am

I'm enjoying how people are piling on the BBFC for being "censors", and thinking this was a good idea. Sorry, but I'm with the BBFC on this one. The real issue here is how film classification is applied in the UK, not the BBFC itself.

Now, I fully understand Lyne's complaint, and I think that there needs to be an overhaul of the way BBFC classification is mandatory for even the smallest screening in the UK, largely because the costs are grossly unfair to smaller films and their distributors. This is where I wish the UK would copy the States, and simply offer BBFC certifications as guidelines that local councils and theaters could enforce. So that way, smaller independent films could be shown in limited release and even released on video without BBFC classification, and only the titles from major distributors would have BBFC classifications.

However, the reality is for commercial film distribution, every country wants to have a film classification board, and with few exceptions, the BBFC are probably the best in the English-speaking world. Worldwide, I've always tended to admire the laissez-faire approach of the French and the Nordic countries (I still can't get a bead on the German FSK), but if we tried that on in the English-speaking world, parents (and complaint-enthusiasts) would go ballistic. I do still think we need to alter how UK law mandates dealing with animal cruelty in films, to stop the useless mandatory editing of older and foreign films that were stupid enough to hurt animals, but otherwise, the rest of the blame for film censorship in the UK lies at the feet of the major distributors, who are trying to make money by achieving lower certificates. I'll agree that it's not a perfect system, but when you consider how much more influence the MPAA ends up asserting over films worldwide, or how many films the OFLC/ACB has banned or cut in Australia, then it's hard to fault the BBFC, when they themselves are pretty fair and balanced in what they do.

Having said that, I would have loved for Lyne to have punctuated the atmosphere with random musings, all of which was U material, but then slipped a random "c**t" in there really quick just to see if the BBFC really were watching all 607 minutes of it.
Last edited by McCrutchy on Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MichaelB
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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#224 Post by MichaelB » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:43 am

The basic problem is that Lyne's picked the wrong target. Obviously the BBFC has to charge fees for their time - it's always been funded exclusively by the film industry, and how else are they going to pay their staff and overheads?

The central issue isn't the fact that the BBFC does this, it's the fact that the 1984 Video Recordings Act compels all video distributors to pay for BBFC classification. If this was made optional, as is the case in many, many other countries, the problem would vanish - but the BBFC doesn't have the power to do this.

Personally, I'd have no problem at all with a system that gave everything a mandatory 18 certificate for nothing and but offered the option of paying BBFC fees if distributors want a milder classification - after all, most of the stuff I produce isn't aimed at kids or teenagers so it wouldn't make the slightest difference to me, except by freeing up several hundred pounds to be spent on additional disc content.

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Re: The BBFC vs. UK Independent Labels

#225 Post by McCrutchy » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:50 am

MichaelB wrote:Personally, I'd have no problem at all with a system that gave everything a mandatory 18 certificate for nothing and but offered the option of paying BBFC fees if distributors want a milder classification - after all, most of the stuff I produce isn't aimed at kids or teenagers so it wouldn't make the slightest difference to me, except by freeing up several hundred pounds to be spent on additional disc content.
And that's my understanding of how it works in most or all of the Nordic countries. You can skip the classification, but then you have to print a mandatory highest classification on the box (which I believe is '15' in all of the countries). Obviously, that's even better, because how many under 15s are going to end up buying films anyway, but the same rationale could easily be applied for most under 18s, particularly nowadays.

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