386 Sansho the Bailiff

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Jean-Luc Garbo
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#101 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Fri May 04, 2007 7:56 pm

How's the commentary on this one?

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kinjitsu
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#102 Post by kinjitsu » Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm

Gary Tooze wrote: Supplements include a thoroughly professional audio commentary by Japanese literature professor Jeffrey Angles. He examines the various versions of Sanshô dayû and where Mizoguchi and the writers, Fuji Yahiro and Yoshikata Yoda, took liberties with the original Ogai Mori story. Pretty high-brow stuff but after introducing himself in Japanese, Angles goes on to give an entertaining and informative commentary. There are some short gaps where he lets the narrative flow and times where he himself narrates/explains some less than obvious plot details. In short it is as professional and prepared a commentary as I have heard this year. No one who bothers to listen will be disappointed.

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#103 Post by Murasaki53 » Sun May 06, 2007 11:06 am

This is slightly off-topic but I'd be pleased if someone (Michael?) could say a little more about Musashi Miyamoto. There's very little information around about this film on the Web and I'd be intrigued to find out more.

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#104 Post by tryavna » Sun May 06, 2007 12:19 pm

Murasaki53 wrote:This is slightly off-topic but I'd be pleased if someone (Michael?) could say a little more about Musashi Miyamoto. There's very little information around about this film on the Web and I'd be intrigued to find out more.
Isn't he the character Mifune plays in Inagaki's Samurai trilogy? Seems like that would be a good place to start, as would this Wikipedia article.

Interestingly enough, I've just asked Michael another question elsewhere. He's going to be busy today....

Edit: Silly me. I just realized that you were talking about Mizoguchi's movie, not the historical/legendary figure. My mistake.
Last edited by tryavna on Sun May 06, 2007 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#105 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun May 06, 2007 1:52 pm

Mizoguchi's version of Musashi Miyamoto is a wonderfully quirky and low-key one (compared to the norm -- based on what I've read).

It roughly covers the same story as part three of Inagaki's series (and part 5 of Uchida's) -- with Miyamoto's climactic duel with Kojiro Sasaki on Ganryu Island. Here, Miyamoto (played by the wonderful Chojuro Kawarasaki -- who starred in Yamanaka's "Kochiyama Soshun" and "Humanity and Paper Balloons" and Mizoguchi's "47 Ronin") is living in the woods as a near hermit, devoting himself to devotional sculpture (just finishing a wooden sculpture of Kuan Yin / Kannon). He still gets involved with protecting the weak, though -- on his comparatively rare visits to town. His repose is disturbed by the arrival of Kinuyo Tanaka and her "brother" -- whose father was unjustly kiled by Sasaki and want to be trained in martial arts so they can try to seek revenge. Miyamoto reluctantly agrees -- but while the two are under his protection, Sasaki's thugs find the them and murder the brother.

At this point, Miyamoto tells Tanaka that she should not involve herself in seeking revenge further, the fight is now his. He seeks clan authority for a duel, which is granted. Sasaki, publicly willing to fight, tries a sneaky shortcut, sending some of his thugs to assassinate Miyamoto on the way to the duel. Obviously, this plot fails. Miyamoto is incensed -- and devises a plan for fighting Sasaki that shows his disdain for his lack of virtue. The fight has to be seen to believed -- and I'm not saying another word about how this is presented.

Unlike "Bijomaru" which is patently stage-bound -- this seems to be mostly shot on location. The cinematography by Minoru Miki (who worked with Mizoguchi frequently from 1933 through 1946) is absolutely gorgeous.

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#106 Post by Tomas » Sun May 06, 2007 3:02 pm

All I remember about the film is, that it is about 45 minutes long and some wonderful camera work by Mizoguchi. Its different from other Mushashi stories - both kids come to Musashi asking him to teach them how to use the sword for revenge (I haven't seen this plot in any other Musashi films). The VHS copy was really bad, but its still a good movie. I have to see it again.

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#107 Post by Murasaki53 » Mon May 07, 2007 5:22 am

Michael & Tomas. Thanks for your comments. I've steered clear of the Criterion Trilogy on the assumption that these films are just chambara style adventure stories.But Mizoguchi's version has intrigued me ever since I first heard of it and so I'll take the plunge and get hold of the DVD.

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TheGodfather
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#108 Post by TheGodfather » Fri May 11, 2007 2:29 pm

Got my copy today from dvdpacific.
Again a lovely package. Beautiful design, a great looking book. Haven`t seen the film before though, so that`s something to look forward to for sure.

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HerrSchreck
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#109 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat May 12, 2007 1:31 pm

An utterly beautiful package, an outstanding job of restoration and cleanup. Beautiful, beautiful.. just sublime. One of the most beautiful packaging jobs I've seen from CC ever, and thats saying a lot.

More than almost any other, Mizoguchi combined the most modern techniques available in the cinema at the time and put them in the service of the most sublime material to create an art that most fully lived up to the power of the most ancient aesthetics of art. The meticulous perfection, the rapturous beauty, the cinema of his latter days more than any other filmmaker contains the timeless raw power and wisdom and impeccable nature of ancient wisdom tales, classic painting, the prfoundest philosophical tracts of ancient elders, etc. It really comes down to you from on high in a biblical sense, the hugeness of the otherworldliness... just an endlessly rewarding art no matter how many times you see it. The fuckin guy should be canonized. I love this grim, stoical dude. They dont make em like him very often.

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#110 Post by Nothing » Mon May 14, 2007 2:12 am

Damn right.

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#111 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon May 14, 2007 11:57 am

While I think Sansho is a "must see", I think HerrSchreck is rather overselling it. It is NOT a sacred text, just a fine film. It is not perfect -- at least one major role is rather poorly handled -- but is wonderful despite this.

Mizoguchi, whatever his virtues, was not a modernist -- in technique or in themes (except, perhaps, for a short period in the 1920s). And whatever his genius as a film maker, Mizoguchi is not prospect for canonization because -- as a human being -- he was rather rotten in many respects.

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#112 Post by Gigi M. » Mon May 14, 2007 12:17 pm

Sorry Michael, but what's a modernist in your opinion?

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#113 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon May 14, 2007 1:33 pm

Gigi M. wrote:Sorry Michael, but what's a modernist in your opinion?
It is easier to say why Mizoguchi was NOT a modernist -- than to say (in the abstract) what a modernist is.

Mizoguchi's dramaturgy (rooted tightly in shimpa melodramas of the teens) was slightly old-fashioned in the late 20s -- and virtually antique by the 50s. His politics, which had briefly been leftist in the 20s, had turned towards conservatism by the 40s. His compositional methods in the 50s owed far more to those of the 20s than to innovations during subsequent decades.

Rather like Bach (who was far more old-fashioned than the always up-to-date Telemann and Handel), Mizoguchi's worth depends primarily on the ultra refinement of styles and techniques on the verge of becoming "obsolete" -- and not on keeping up with (or inventing) the latest innovation.

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#114 Post by Gigi M. » Mon May 14, 2007 1:36 pm

Amazing argument Michael, but as a technician/filmmaker (not as a storyteller), would you consider Mizo a modernist? I believe that was Schreck's point.

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#115 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon May 14, 2007 2:17 pm

Gigi M. wrote:Amazing argument Michael, but as a technician/filmmaker (not as a storyteller), would you consider Mizo a modernist? I believe that was Schreck's point.
No. Not even slightly. On the contrary, aesthetically very much a conservative by the 50s.

No presumption at all as to whether being (or not being) "modernist" is good or bad. Bach was absolutely great -- being the most "old-fashioned" great composer of his generation doesn't dim his luster at all.

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#116 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon May 14, 2007 7:01 pm

David --- I don't really disagree with anything you've written -- except the evocation of the notion of "avant-garde". I think it makes much more sense to avoid a term of this sort in the case of late Mizoguchi.

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#117 Post by GringoTex » Tue May 15, 2007 7:08 am

Michael Kerpan wrote: His compositional methods in the 50s owed far more to those of the 20s than to innovations during subsequent decades.
I've read that his big influences were Sternberg, Ford, and Wyler, which would suggest the 30s as a strong decade of influence.

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#118 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue May 15, 2007 8:38 am

Cinematically, 30s Hollywood had a strong influence on Mizoguchi -- as it did on almost all Japanese film makers (except maybe the makers of the most atavistic swordfight films). But his underlying aesthetic foundation never strayed too far from the shimpa theater of the teens and early 20s. That said, I'm sure M appropriated any stylistic ideas that could aid in presenting his own idiosyncratic vision.

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#119 Post by sidehacker » Wed May 16, 2007 10:17 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:Mizoguchi's style, as great as his films may be, is far more old-fashioned than Kurosawa's.
Mizoguchi is probably the earliest "classic" director I am sort of in to. I do agree that a lot of films, at least on a technical level, come off as being very, well let's just say it, boring. However, I definitely find his themes and interests far more humane and ahead of the time than Kurosawa's. Truth be told, outside of Ikiru and Rashomon, Kurosawa is of no interest to me but Mizoguchi definitely is. I'm not sure where I'm going with this post but I was hoping you would go a bit deeper in to why you think Kurosawa was a more advanced than Mizoguchi.

Perhaps a reevaluation of Kurosawa is in order? I still have yet to see Ran and that definitely looks like his most visually interesting film.

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#120 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed May 16, 2007 10:33 pm

I like both Kurosawa and Mizoguchi -- about equally, but for different reasons.

In saying that Mizoguchi's style has a very old-fashioned foundation I am not _saying_ his style is bad at all. I think it is often visually extraordinary. I do think this quality makes it much harder for modern audiences to connect with his work (both in Japan and the West) -- while Kurosawa's cinematic style is both based on more modern Western influences -- and in turn strongly influenced Western cinema. Consequently Kurosawa does not feel as foreign and remote to modern viewers as Mizoguchi does.

I rarely find Mizoguchi technically boring, quite the contrary. It is his thematic material that I sometimes find overly simplistic.

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#121 Post by Michael » Tue May 22, 2007 10:17 am

Just bought Sansho. It's the most beautiful package I've seen coming from Criterion. I'm going to watch Sansho and Ugetsu back to back tonight. Should I order the AE disc of Life of Oharu (via xpoitedcinema)?

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#122 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue May 22, 2007 10:38 am

Michael wrote:Just bought Sansho. It's the most beautiful package I've seen coming from Criterion. I'm going to watch Sansho and Ugetsu back to back tonight. Should I order the AE disc of Life of Oharu (via xpoitedcinema)?
Hold off -- unless you can find this at a decent price -- this is a pretty mediocre transfer. the French-subbed DVD I got was definitely better. Surely Criterion has got to tackle this sometime soon....

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#123 Post by ellipsis7 » Tue May 22, 2007 10:52 am

I just ordered AE's LIFE OF OHARU @ £6.89/€10 including free postage (for UK & Ireland) - from sendit.com, which allows me to replace with a CC disc in due course without undue damage!...

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#124 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue May 22, 2007 11:07 am

ellipsis7 wrote:I just ordered AE's LIFE OF OHARU @ £6.89/€10 including free postage (for UK & Ireland) - from sendit.com, which allows me to replace with a CC disc in due course without undue damage!...
With free postage, it might be worth it. ;~}

The film is certainly worth seeing ( I like it more than Sansho or Ugetsu).

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Michael
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#125 Post by Michael » Tue May 22, 2007 11:09 am

Hold off -- unless you can find this at a decent price -- this is a pretty mediocre transfer.
The exploitedcinema price is very steep but its service has always been reliable. I will probably hold off but I really would love to see all the 50s Mizoguchis before the Lists Project deadline. I just have a feeling that Life of Oharu would rank very high on my 50s list especially after reading how great it is from you, davidhare and Lino.

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