147 In the Mood for Love

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swo17
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#51 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:03 pm


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ryannichols7
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 pm

Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#52 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:05 pm

this is a blatant cash grab I think, capitalizing on the film's continued longevity and newer popularity (the Everything Everywhere crowd eat it up). because this edition..

no HDR
worse cover
less extras

so what, better compression on a color grading we all know on this site is worse? but of course the casual crowd will pick it up and it will sell tons

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Ribs
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#53 Post by Ribs » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:06 pm

People like the movie actually and are happy to buy it in a new format that will render it better. I don’t really see the point in being angry about it, this current format is what the movie is now. Don’t buy it?

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ryannichols7
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 pm

Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#54 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:10 pm

Ribs wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:06 pm
People like the movie actually and are happy to buy it in a new format that will render it better. I don’t really see the point in being angry about it, this current format is what the movie is now. Don’t buy it?
I won't, but this is a slot that could've gone to something else. I personally think HDR-less UHDs are such a low priority, unless its something where the original BD was really messed up (Kino's Dollars Trilogy and The Great Escape are good examples of SDR UHDs - all four films had bad BDs). I do love this movie, watch it all the time, but the new color scheme is still completely unacceptable and Criterion is now further pushing it by releasing this

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#55 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:26 pm

I get the frustration if there's worry they'll keep pumping out solo 4K releases from the WKW box, which are also ethically-debatable versions of the film getting further reinforcement with "upgrades." I'll happily save money this month (worst November ever?) but I'm mostly despondent that this probably signifies how well the WKW box is selling

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ryannichols7
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#56 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:30 pm

yeah, I hadn't "come back" to the forum when the initial box was announced but I'm very much in the "these movies mean a lot to me and I hate what the creator is doing" and now anything further pushing out these revisions is further frustrating to me. to top it off, an SDR UHD? just feels incredibly lazy in every way. thankfully the old BD with the correct color grading seems to be staying in print - for now

but I'm with you, gonna save a lot of money. I'm glad WKW's films are more popular than they ever have been, I really am! I just wish everyone was seeing them the way they were originally seen.

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Amazing Goose
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#57 Post by Amazing Goose » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:31 pm

Strange how Chungking Express continued to sell for over $100 after the WKW box was announced and released because it had the original color timing (though those prices seem to have cooled), yet I don't see the original (and presumably now OOP) ITMFL doing the same thing.
I suppose because both versions have been available for a while, so people can choose which one they want. (And, going by the Reddit thread, most don't mind the new look.)

Calvin
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#58 Post by Calvin » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:34 pm

Has anybody seen the German UHD to compare it to the existing Criterion? I know that Nova initially announced this for UHD before making a U-turn as they thought the upgrade was too minimal to justify the expense and they're not exactly a label known for being PQ perfectionists.

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swo17
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#59 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:36 pm

Amazing Goose wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:31 pm
I don't see the original (and presumably now OOP) ITMFL doing the same thing
It has never gone OOP

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ryannichols7
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#60 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:37 pm

Amazing Goose wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:31 pm
Strange how Chungking Express continued to sell for over $100 after the WKW box was announced and released because it had the original color timing (though those prices seem to have cooled), yet I don't see the original (and presumably now OOP) ITMFL doing the same thing.
I suppose because both versions have been available for a while, so people can choose which one they want. (And, going by the Reddit thread, most don't mind the new look.)
original ITMFL is still for sale, if you click that option on their website it even shows the old cover, and both of Tony Rayns' interviews are still there!

Chungking Express would've been a more logical start but yeah, again I'll reiterate the EEAAO crowd and Sight and Sound polls probably tipped this one first

reddit will buy anything from this label sight unseen. they're the most bassoonist of places to discuss Criterion

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vsski
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#61 Post by vsski » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:37 pm

This film has a very special place in my heart. I was so taken after I saw it that I walked 40 blocks through Manhattan as I didn’t want to take a cab and stay with my feelings. I have the old BD and unless someone somewhere releases a 4K with the original color scheme, I will not go near this. Unfortunately though WKW seems to be succeeding in getting the old versions off the market and I’m afraid that it will not take too long until collective memory will believe that the new versions are the “right” way to see them.
Last edited by vsski on Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Amazing Goose
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#62 Post by Amazing Goose » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:01 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:36 pm
Amazing Goose wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:31 pm
I don't see the original (and presumably now OOP) ITMFL doing the same thing
It has never gone OOP
What I meant is that the original version/release with the red tint is likely no longer available from Criterion now that this new WKW-restoration version has the spine number.

When the WKW box was announced, I picked up a couple extra copies of ITMFL at a sale price, thinking they might increase in value a la Chungking Express. When they stayed in print for a few years, I decided to sell them this summer.
I've learned not to speculate on Criterion discs.

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Finch
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#63 Post by Finch » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:13 pm

Another one here who loves the film dearly but won't be buying this UHD due to the revisionist colors. I don't mind this being SDR only but the new colors is still a deal breaker.

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ryannichols7
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#64 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:14 pm

Amazing Goose wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:01 pm
swo17 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:36 pm
Amazing Goose wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:31 pm
I don't see the original (and presumably now OOP) ITMFL doing the same thing
It has never gone OOP
What I meant is that the original version/release with the red tint is likely no longer available from Criterion now that this new WKW-restoration version has the spine number.

When the WKW box was announced, I picked up a couple extra copies of ITMFL at a sale price, thinking they might increase in value a la Chungking Express. When they stayed in print for a few years, I decided to sell them this summer.
I've learned not to speculate on Criterion discs.
it's still in print as of now, as I said above, you can literally select the Bluray option on the page for the film and it shows the old cover and old extras and allows you to purchase it. that edition, nor the original DVD, have ever gone out of print. even the old DVD just got a repackage but is still the same discs
Finch wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:13 pm
Another one here who loves the film dearly but won't be buying this UHD due to the revisionist colors. I don't mind this being SDR only but the new colors is still a deal breaker.
i could've lived with SDR only if it had the original colors. this is a film where there would be a larger benefit (NOTLD not being one, in my opinion) since the original BD was a 2012 release. but since it's not...

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tenia
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#65 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:19 pm

Calvin wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:34 pm
Has anybody seen the German UHD to compare it to the existing Criterion? I know that Nova initially announced this for UHD before making a U-turn as they thought the upgrade was too minimal to justify the expense and they're not exactly a label known for being PQ perfectionists.
Caps-a-holic has a SDR comparison. The upgrade seems marginal in terms of precision and I haven't heard much praise about the HDR pass (IIRC, it's minimal and there is more to say about the new color grade as a whole than the HDR pass).

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Dansu Dansu Dansu
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#66 Post by Dansu Dansu Dansu » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:23 pm

I find it more depressing when Criterion releases a subpar edition of a film you love than when they put it in forever limbo (such as all Golden Age Japanese films, apparently) because, that’s it! That’s the one you’re getting. No hope for anything better. So personally, I consider “don’t buy it” to be an inadequate response.

Criterion could have waited until a solution to WKW’s revisionism materialized (such as using the widespread criticism to express reluctance about producing additional releases, putting pressure on WKW to allow both versions), or maybe, with a thousand possible upgrades awaiting release, waited more than a year from the box set’s original launch before releasing it. Considering they knew they were going 4K by the time they released it, the Blu-ray set now appears like a cynical calculation.
Last edited by Dansu Dansu Dansu on Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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justeleblanc
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#67 Post by justeleblanc » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:40 pm

CC must figure this 4K disc will sell enough copies to justify ticking off WKW fans who are angered by the revisionist colors.

Though I'd be curious to find out how well that WKW box actually performed in sales. The origami packaging and revisionist colors surely kept a number of people from picking it up, no? Or maybe I have this all wrong.

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tenia
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#68 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 pm

From what I saw online, naysayers on this set were within a very minority. It doesn't make sense considering how much it's lacking (extras, packaging, revisionism), but yet, seemingly, it was enough for a vast amount of people.

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ryannichols7
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#69 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:11 pm

yeah unfortunately the problem is that the Everything Everywhere crowd now far outnumber those of us who saw and loved the film with the original colors. there's no turning back unfortunately, this really has become the arthouse equivalent of Star Wars!
Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:23 pm
I find it more depressing when Criterion releases a subpar edition of a film you love than when they put it in forever limbo (such as all Golden Age Japanese films, apparently) because, that’s it! That’s the one you’re getting. No hope for anything better. So personally, I consider “don’t buy it” to be an inadequate response.

Criterion could have waited until a solution to WKW’s revisionism materialized (such as using the widespread criticism to express reluctance about producing additional releases, putting pressure on WKW to allow both versions), or maybe, with a thousand possible upgrades awaiting release, waited more than a year from the box set’s original launch before releasing it. Considering they knew they were going 4K by the time they released it, the Blu-ray set now appears like a cynical calculation.
i agree with you (especially if they lock up the UK rights - see Pale Flower getting released with a 10+ year old transfer even though there's a new 4K restoration), but they absolutely released this now because they knew they could cash in on one of the year's most popular movies referencing this one heavily.

but I'm with you, "don't buy it" isn't sufficient when this is a favorite film that won't get anything better. that's also a response our favorite label representative would say...

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#70 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:23 pm

What's the relationship between people who like Everything Everywhere All at Once and those who accept WKW's revisionism on In the Mood for Love? I get that there's a reference to this film in that film, but what else am I missing?

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ryannichols7
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#71 Post by ryannichols7 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:25 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:23 pm
What's the relationship between people who like Everything Everywhere All at Once and those who accept WKW's revisionism on In the Mood for Love? I get that there's a reference to this film in that film, but what else am I missing?
the movie uses the revisionist color in it's reference scene, and a lot of those fans seem to have by and large accepted that as the "correct" color scheme. at least from what I've seen on social media!

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#72 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:34 pm

Is it really a consistent conversation being talked about on social media, where people who like the Daniels film are advocating hard for this revisionism to the point of it becoming a 'thing'? That would be so weird, but it's the only thing that really constitutes calling the revisionists "the Everything Everywhere crowd" -almost everyone I know who likes that film and is in the know about the WKW restoration controversy did not make that connection and is against the revisionism. So it feels a bit misguided or harsh to categorize those who are in favor of/complicit in ruining this movie synonymous with the fans of a recent fun popular movie with about two minutes of footage set in that color palette/reference! I don't want to get lumped in there!

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Computer Raheem
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#73 Post by Computer Raheem » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:04 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:34 pm
Is it really a consistent conversation being talked about on social media, where people who like the Daniels film are advocating hard for this revisionism to the point of it becoming a 'thing'? That would be so weird, but it's the only thing that really constitutes calling the revisionists "the Everything Everywhere crowd" -almost everyone I know who likes that film and is in the know about the WKW restoration controversy did not make that connection and is against the revisionism. So it feels a bit misguided or harsh to categorize those who are in favor of/complicit in ruining this movie synonymous with the fans of a recent fun popular movie with about two minutes of footage set in that color palette/reference! I don't want to get lumped in there!
To add my two cents, Everything Everywhere's homage sequence doesn't really contain any of the revisionism that is contained in the recent "restoration" of ItMfL; the only resemblance to it I found was during the back alley scenes, and that looked (at least to me) motivated by the neon lights in the scene than any reference to WkW's revisionism. I could be wrong (I've only seen the film once), but that's what I can recall. That doesn't change my perception that Criterion is releasing this specifically to cash in on that film's success though

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tenia
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#74 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:08 pm

This is non-sense.
Everything Everywhere was first shown on March 11, 2022.
The ITMFL's 4k restoration was already touring in October 2017.
The WKW Criterion was released in March 2021, and the discussion (including from those who praised it) started there.
Computer Raheem wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:04 pm
the only resemblance to it I found was during the back alley scenes, and that looked (at least to me) motivated by the neon lights in the scene than any reference to WkW's revisionism.
It's an hommage/spoof, not a restoration, and it's to WKW's style overall, not ITMFL specifically (though obviously, its themes are the closest). It'd be also very tough, as shown by the timeline, to explain how people were convinced in 2021 by a movie released in 2022.

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Computer Raheem
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Re: 147 In the Mood for Love

#75 Post by Computer Raheem » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:15 pm

tenia wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:08 pm
This is non-sense.
Everything Everywhere was first shown on March 11, 2022.
The ITMFL's 4k restoration was already touring in October 2017.
The WKW Criterion was released in March 2021, and the discussion (including from those who praised it) started there.
Computer Raheem wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:04 pm
the only resemblance to it I found was during the back alley scenes, and that looked (at least to me) motivated by the neon lights in the scene than any reference to WkW's revisionism.
It's an hommage/spoof, not a restoration, and it's to WKW's style overall, not ITMFL specifically (though obviously, its themes are the closest). It'd be also very tough, as shown by the timeline, to explain how people were convinced in 2021 by a movie released in 2022.
Apologies for not specifying; I was going against the notion that people who were defending the restoration of ItMfL were doing so because it resembled Everything Everywhere's homage by saying that the sequence in Everything Everywhere did not resemble the restoration of ItMfL in my opinion. I hope that clarifies things.

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